• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Not-for-hire hauling of CTL's

CM1995

Administrator
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,464
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
I am 99% sure that a non commercial class A is required when towing a trailer over 10,000 lbs. any state driver license should state < or > than 10,000 lb towing on them.

The 10,000 trailer law is a fed law not a state, most states just dont enforce it most of time.

Not in Alabama.

States may be more restrictive but have to abide by the basic Federal CDL rules so it's best to check each one's individual states rules.

https://www.alea.gov/dps/driver-lic...icenses-classes-endorsements-and-restrictions

Here in AL a 11k lb SRW F350 pulling a 14K trailer = no CDL required as the GCWR of the 2 are less than 26,001 lb.

Now take our new RAM dualie it's 13K GVW for the truck, hook up to the 14K trailer = required Class A CDL.

The 10K lb trailer rule in AL is for truck/trailer combinations where the truck's GVW + 10 LB trailer goes over 26,001. For instance 25K GVW single axle dump truck can pull up to a 10K lb trailer without having a Class A CDL. Put an 11K lb trailer behind the 25K single axle and Class A required.

Only government can make this so confusing.:cool:
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,072
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
VT has its own laws, they try to conform to other state's laws.
Here, the farm exemption is frowned upon for hobby farmers except moving equipment from field to field.
Our law says if the trailer is rated over 10000 GTW, regardless of load, you need CDL. In another place it says only if the truck weight + the trailer rated GTWR exceeds 26000.

If your truck, with loaded trailer attached weighs 9000, and the gross trailer weight rating is 17001 you need CDL. For lighter trucks they take actual scale weight of the truck with gooseneck attached. 7000 LB truck, 2000 pounds on the gooseneck=9000 plus rated weight of loaded trailer17001.
 

673moto

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
320
Location
NorCal
Occupation
Slacker
Best I can figure in California is if the trailer is rated over 10k you need a class A. Even if the trailer is empty.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,072
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Best I can figure in California is if the trailer is rated over 10k you need a class A. Even if the trailer is empty.
Vermont says that, then later in the rules they say the scale weight of truck + manufacturer's maximum rating of trailer added are under 26000 it does not apply.

Vermont legislature wants everyone to live in an apartment & drive a Prius. They prefer you not be employed, that messes up their utopia. The only acceptable pastimes here are marijuana, or skiing. They will throw obstacles in the path of anyone who deviates. CDL should not be an obstacle except for the DMV in your state. As the law is written, you have to understand the braking system of your vehicle. Then you get a manual. The written test penalizes people who think. They want you to recite the manual word for word. It is filled with questions deemed incorrect when your answer deviates in any detail from the manual's text.

Then the medical card you were told you didn't need is required. "Sorry, it doesn't matter what we told you 30 days ago. The law is changing in July, this is April, we're enforcing it early."

Next round, pre trip inspection: "I'm failing you. You didn't inspect your trailer's headboard, or landing gear. You failed to inspect the truck's windshield or mirrors." I argued the trailer doesn't have a headboard, or landing gear. If there were a problem with windshield or mirrors, I'd have noted them this morning before driving here. He replied: "You need to mention these things."

Next round, they had no record of me having an appointment. Go away, reschedule.

Next trip I was Bill Murray in the movie Groundhog Day! I spent two hours on pre trip inspection. I had him begging for mercy! He had heard more commentary on the condition of every frame bolt, level of fill in every cavity. I bored the most boring man living to the edge of death by boredom.

Eventually he called off the pre trip inspection before I was finished. He elected to move to the dock backing phase. The state highway trucks were parked in the way. He asked if it would be necessary to move them. I was catching on that all questions are trick questions. I fought my nature to say: "Yes they are in my way."

Passing the dock backing test, I believe he was reluctant to let me do the road test.

In total, my CDL license took 5 trips. Four of them by VT law, I had to be accompanied by a VT licensed CDL driver, and appear at the test facility in a heavy truck with trailer.
 

nomorelawns

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Averill Park, NY
I am 99% sure that a non commercial class A is required when towing a trailer over 10,000 lbs. any state driver license should state < or > than 10,000 lb towing on them. I was just at a dinner with a maryland state police officer that runs in our local scale house. I was picking his brain about this a little bit, He stated as long as no name is on truck trailer or equipment they dont check. But if they think you are doing any business for hire they will be checking your credentials. The 10,000 trailer law is a fed law not a state, most states just dont enforce it most of time. Just my 2 cents. Dont want some one getting dinged for not knowing. Any one can call there state DOT and ask questions. Better to be informed over of the phone than along the road. Phone call is much cheaper. Again the class A Iam talking about is not a CDL. Big difference between the two.

Trailer over 10,000 is a federal law when driving a truck over 26,000. Below that it’s exempt.
 

Tyler d4c

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,849
Location
Salix Pa
Vermont says that, then later in the rules they say the scale weight of truck + manufacturer's maximum rating of trailer added are under 26000 it does not apply.

Vermont legislature wants everyone to live in an apartment & drive a Prius. They prefer you not be employed, that messes up their utopia. The only acceptable pastimes here are marijuana, or skiing. They will throw obstacles in the path of anyone who deviates. CDL should not be an obstacle except for the DMV in your state. As the law is written, you have to understand the braking system of your vehicle. Then you get a manual. The written test penalizes people who think. They want you to recite the manual word for word. It is filled with questions deemed incorrect when your answer deviates in any detail from the manual's text.

Then the medical card you were told you didn't need is required. "Sorry, it doesn't matter what we told you 30 days ago. The law is changing in July, this is April, we're enforcing it early."

Next round, pre trip inspection: "I'm failing you. You didn't inspect your trailer's headboard, or landing gear. You failed to inspect the truck's windshield or mirrors." I argued the trailer doesn't have a headboard, or landing gear. If there were a problem with windshield or mirrors, I'd have noted them this morning before driving here. He replied: "You need to mention these things."

Next round, they had no record of me having an appointment. Go away, reschedule.

Next trip I was Bill Murray in the movie Groundhog Day! I spent two hours on pre trip inspection. I had him begging for mercy! He had heard more commentary on the condition of every frame bolt, level of fill in every cavity. I bored the most boring man living to the edge of death by boredom.

Eventually he called off the pre trip inspection before I was finished. He elected to move to the dock backing phase. The state highway trucks were parked in the way. He asked if it would be necessary to move them. I was catching on that all questions are trick questions. I fought my nature to say: "Yes they are in my way."

Passing the dock backing test, I believe he was reluctant to let me do the road test.

In total, my CDL license took 5 trips. Four of them by VT law, I had to be accompanied by a VT licensed CDL driver, and appear at the test facility in a heavy truck with trailer.
Sounds like when I got mine gets my heart rate up just thinking about it
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,072
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Trailer over 10,000 is a federal law when driving a truck over 26,000. Below that it’s exempt.
Yes, but in VT there is another mention that if combined trailer gross + truck weight is under 26000 (the weight of a truck with no trailer requiring CDL) no CDL required.

A customer recently moved from NJ challenged me on this. He has a 12000 LB rated gooseneck he tows with an F350 Diesel dually. He will be under 26000. VT DOT agrees with him, no CDL required.
 

nomorelawns

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
10
Location
Averill Park, NY
Yes, but in VT there is another mention that if combined trailer gross + truck weight is under 26000 (the weight of a truck with no trailer requiring CDL) no CDL required.

A customer recently moved from NJ challenged me on this. He has a 12000 LB rated gooseneck he tows with an F350 Diesel dually. He will be under 26000. VT DOT agrees with him, no CDL required.
That is correct. I was not saying otherwise. The quoted post stated that federally all combinations with a trailer over 10k need class a cdl. That is not correct.
 

Montecresto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2022
Messages
76
Location
Arkansas
Not in Alabama.

States may be more restrictive but have to abide by the basic Federal CDL rules so it's best to check each one's individual states rules.

https://www.alea.gov/dps/driver-lic...icenses-classes-endorsements-and-restrictions

Here in AL a 11k lb SRW F350 pulling a 14K trailer = no CDL required as the GCWR of the 2 are less than 26,001 lb.

Now take our new RAM dualie it's 13K GVW for the truck, hook up to the 14K trailer = required Class A CDL.

The 10K lb trailer rule in AL is for truck/trailer combinations where the truck's GVW + 10 LB trailer goes over 26,001. For instance 25K GVW single axle dump truck can pull up to a 10K lb trailer without having a Class A CDL. Put an 11K lb trailer behind the 25K single axle and Class A required.

Only government can make this so confusing.:cool:
Yep, only government can make this so confusing. Hauling within the limits of the sticker on the truck and the sticker on the trailer seems like a Apretty safe bet though. Lots of 1 ton flat beds moving heavy equipment on 24K tandem dually’s with the not for hire stickers.
 

Willie B

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
4,072
Location
Mount Tabor VT
Occupation
Electrician
Pick up the free CDL book at any DMV office. Read it and take the written test at the main DMV office in West Duluth. It will be multiple choice and common sense. Two trick questions out of 100. All answers are right on them two so no one is good enough to get 100%. Then you can practice driving as long as you are empty, in daylight, and under the 26,000. Over 26,000 you would need a CDL driver with you. The test is just driving around a few blocks and backing up making a easy drivers side 90 degree left hand turn over at Wade Stadium parking lot. You can pull up as many times as you need. None is best. Then back up straight enough for another 40 yards to still be in the parking lot at the back edge. The biggest piece is to be sure you have your pre trip inspection nailed down. When the inspector walks out with you mention you will start with your pre-trip inspection. Easy on a goose neck and all in the manual. You can skip the air brake part.

Hanging Horn is one lake that fascinates me for fishing, I can not get it figured out. What a crazy structure in that lake. Its a amazing lake. I live exactly one mile west of M.L.
The VT CDL Book is confusing. It states CDL is needed for any trailer nameplated over 10,000 LBS.
Elsewhere, it exempts unless combined weight is over 26000.

As for exemptions, farm plates are exempt from CDL requirements, as are firemen, & motor home drivers.
You are still subject to other rules. You may not exceed the Gross Combined rating, & trailer weight limit of your truck manufacturer. Farm plates do not exempt you from overweight fines.
Our F350 as one example lists 19500. as trailer weight limit.
 

Montecresto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2022
Messages
76
Location
Arkansas
The VT CDL Book is confusing. It states CDL is needed for any trailer nameplated over 10,000 LBS.
Elsewhere, it exempts unless combined weight is over 26000.

As for exemptions, farm plates are exempt from CDL requirements, as are firemen, & motor home drivers.
You are still subject to other rules. You may not exceed the Gross Combined rating, & trailer weight limit of your truck manufacturer. Farm plates do not exempt you from overweight fines.
Our F350 as one example lists 19500. as trailer weight limit.
Where does your 1 ton truck list the trailer weight limit at. I’ve looked all over mine and can’t find that information…..?
 

Montecresto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2022
Messages
76
Location
Arkansas
The VT CDL Book is confusing.
Seems to be the case everywhere and apparently the DOT brownshirts don’t understand it themselves and to a person will give you conflicting information…

I usually move my own equipment on a truck and trailer in compliance with the manufacturer’s information on the labels in the door jamb and on the trailer.

Many here and elsewhere insist a CDL is needed, many others say the information found on those labels can’t be trusted….‍♂️

I just bought a brand new dozer in Florida this last week and don’t wish to run that far to get it so I’m paying for transport. The dealer is providing the transport company who informs me that for this dozer (Case 650 18K weight) they will use a hot shot driving a 1 ton……

Many would say the 1 ton is ill suited to the task, but I do it all the time and you can see guys moving dozers down the highway with 1 tons all the time….
 

Tyler d4c

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,849
Location
Salix Pa
If it's the sheet from the oem I don't know how it could be argued. But if you need to tow around nearly 20 ton it's time for something more then a glorified pickup truck. IMHO
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,343
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
It is important to remember that you can't just look at the total net capability of the tow unit. You have to also make sure the weight is positioned not to overload the axles on truck and trailer. Positioning the dozer or what ever to far forward or backward may put too much weight on certain parts of the trailer or truck. When your running up towards the top of your weight capacity, you need to put the load on a scale and weigh each axle to know how to position the load correctly.

I pull 20K on a DRW 3500 pretty frequently, running up and down mnt passes. I don't have a problem with it. The truck and trailer are capable of that. I don't prefer to run that heavy, but sometimes it is necessary.
 
Top