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PITA pond

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davejo

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We bought a small farm that came with a fixer upper pond. The seller probably spent a good deal on it but it never held much water. I'd like to see if it can be salvaged into something better than a shallow pool surrounded by a mud.

The overall layout is a 200 foot long dam bordering about 1.5 acre excavation. Looks like about 9 acres of runoff might flow towards the hole.

Before "drilling down" on the pond specifics, isn't this thing twice as big as what a simple rule of thumb would suggest?
 
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davejo

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I'd like to confirm what losses I have and see if I might have soil on hand to seal it before buying more clay, bentonite or liner. I think gleying it is one of the few things I can't try.

This is what it looks like. I think the water level in the little test hole is higher than the puddle next to the dam. Obviously I have to get rid of the catttails to start assessing the situation there.
 

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MG84

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What is the soil like? Will it make a ball and stick together if you squeeze it in your hand? I also see some rocky areas, this can cause fissures that will drain the water right out. Are there any wet spots below the dam?
 
CM1995

CM1995

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What's going on with the broken concrete in bottom left of the pic? Erosion control dam?

Side note - once you get the pond dug to where you want it get some grass growing ASAP. Looks like the runoff on site contributed to the silting in.
 
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davejo

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MG84 said:
What is the soil like? Will it make a ball and stick together if you squeeze it in your hand? I also see some rocky areas, this can cause fissures that will drain the water right out. Are there any wet spots below the dam?


Click to expand...
i grabbed some soil that came out of the test hole. The jar test is my first one and I don't know how to read it. Mostly clay? The stuff in he pan is what I rolled in my hand, pretty gooey and smeared deep into my fingerprints. If I ride a dirtbike through the soil the knobbies get clogged up if there is moisture in the soil. I show a mud dauber nest as evidence there is clay somewhere within insect distance:)

we havent noticed any obvious wet spots in the dam.

This area is riddled with karst limestone and I have boulders of it that the excavator pulled out of this hole so it might simply be fissure like you suggest
 

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aighead

aighead

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You could try poking some holes in the bottom of your jug to see if you lose water from above the material, draw a line on the bottle of where the water line is before poking holes. Looks like it may be good material but it likely should be that, solid/compressed, for about 2 feet thick. I've got tree roots and junk that are what I assume are causing the leaks in my pond. I'm assuming you know that even though it looks dry-ish on top that'd likely sink a machine.
 
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MG84

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Yeah all the rock definitely isn’t helping the situation. I’m guessing quite a bit of rock got put in the dam, which also is not ideal. Are there other ponds near by that stay full?
 
CM1995

CM1995

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davejo said:
This area is riddled with karst limestone and I have boulders of it that the excavator pulled out of this hole so it might simply be fissure like you suggest
Click to expand...

The soil looks like a silty clay. Since the property is in karst area are there any sinkholes?
 
bam1968

bam1968

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My initial thoughts are that they didn't put a core trench in under the dam when they built it and the water is simply seeping under it. I have seen this happen too many times.
 
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cosmaar1

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If it were me…… I would dig the dam out and start over. I wouldn’t trust what someone else did especially since there ain’t any water in it.

I’d do it correctly as BAM said and put a core trench in, backfill it with the best clay dirt you have on site and at least you can say that part is good.

Now for the seepage you might have in the pond itself, that’s a different story. As others have said, your best friend is a 8-10 ft test hole and see what you find.
 
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davejo

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bam1968 said:
My initial thoughts are that they didn't put a core trench in under the dam when they built it and the water is simply seeping under it. I have seen this happen too many times.
Click to expand...
If I understand a clay core, it has to extend down and seal onto an impervious layer of either more clay or solid bedrock? Water can seep through the pond floor and dam face but is held back by the dam core and the impervious structure buried below?

I'm thinking I probably don't have an impervious deep layer. The county map shows a sinkhole about 400 feet away, uphill, yikes. (cm1995)
 
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MG84

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The core trench usually extends 3-10’ deep below what was the original ground surface. The purpose is to interrupt any paths for water along or just below the surface (roots, varmint tunnels, old pipes/wires, etc.) The clay core itself starts at the bottom of this trench and goes up all the way to above the water level, and simply acts as a ‘last resort’ to seal any leaks. The other part, depending on what type of overflow, is to have anti-seep collars around the overflow pipe going through the dam. Again to prevent water from following the edge of the pipe through the dam.

Are there other successful ponds near by?
 
CM1995

CM1995

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davejo said:
I'm thinking I probably don't have an impervious deep layer. The county map shows a sinkhole about 400 feet away, uphill, yikes. (cm1995)
Click to expand...

I live in a limestone rich area where sinkholes are quite common. Common enough they have taken a couple roads and a few houses over the years.

This one is not far from me - https://original.newsbreak.com/@apr...a-s-golly-hole-the-largest-sinkhole-in-the-us

Hate to say it but if you have shallow rock veins you may never get the pond to seal as the water will travel between the clay and the rock - hence the sinkholes.

Do you have access to a backhoe or excavator to dig a few test pits?
 
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MG84

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davejo, what county in Va are you in? (you can PM me if you don't want to post it). There are some counties around here that ponds are basically a no-go due to the geology and/or soil type.
 
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