09 PT 30 starting issues ??

[CrimsonSky]

Hello. I been having some odd issues I thought may just have been a vapour lock.

It's been very hot here the last few weeks. The ODD time when I shut machine off and go to start again it just turns over. If I wait and hold the glow plugs on then it starts and runs fine for another 20 or so starts.

This maybe happened 4 times in the last 3 weeks.

Today after just using it without any issues yesterday. I went to start it. Turned over and nothing. Checked the fuel just in case. Filled it up and primed it ( I did install a primer bulb years ago ). Fuel cup is full.
For back in and just turned over. Tried the same trick as I did before with letting it sit a few minutes and holding the glow plugs on. Still nothing.

So went under the hood again. Tried the old wiggle some wires trick lol. Nothing.

Then just made sure the battery was tight and what not. Then got in and now it won't even crank. Has power though as all the lights work and the glow plug light comes on.

Went under the hood again to see if maybe ( obviously ) I wiggled the wrong wire. Everything looks fine.


Any ideas before I dive in?

Also in between heat waves we been getting alot of rain. I know these fuse boxes on these are absolutely garbage as I did have issues years ago with one and had to get a new box Installed. And no issues after

I read can also be the ignition switch. But seems a little abrupt for that.

I read fuses and relays. Havnt checked those as I wanted to get some tool's as it's in the job site right now.

I am a little confused how it went from cranking over to nothing at all. Battery is good.

Thanks for any help.

 

[74inchShovel]

I think there might be two things going on. First thing I would do would be to verify when you go to start starter solenoid is getting battery voltage. I would make sure battery is fully charged then load test at an auto parts store. It might make good surface voltage that collapses under any sort of load.
The first half of your post sounds like a fuel delivery problem. There is that almost inaccessible fuel precleaner tucked way back behind primary fuel filter. (Is this the “fuel cup”) you were referring too? Take it apart and clean it. Change primary fuel filter. If the electrical side has been sorted out then check to make sure good flow gets to the pump. These steel tanks make a lot of rust, enough to the point that it can clog pickup tube in tank. The precleaner will tell that story, is it full of rust?

 

[CrimsonSky]

I think there might be two things going on. First thing I would do would be to verify when you go to start starter solenoid is getting battery voltage. I would make sure battery is fully charged then load test at an auto parts store. It might make good surface voltage that collapses under any sort of load.
The first half of your post sounds like a fuel delivery problem. There is that almost inaccessible fuel precleaner tucked way back behind primary fuel filter. (Is this the “fuel cup”) you were referring too? Take it apart and clean it. Change primary fuel filter. If the electrical side has been sorted out then check to make sure good flow gets to the pump. These steel tanks make a lot of rust, enough to the point that it can clog pickup tube in tank. The precleaner will tell that story, is it full of rust?

I think I may have found the issue with the starter. But not 100% sure as I cannot find a picture and unfortunately I'm working on this in a field atm.

Does anyone have a picture of the wires at the starter itself. Like real world picture please.

Thank you in advance.

 

[CrimsonSky]

I think there might be two things going on. First thing I would do would be to verify when you go to start starter solenoid is getting battery voltage. I would make sure battery is fully charged then load test at an auto parts store. It might make good surface voltage that collapses under any sort of load.
The first half of your post sounds like a fuel delivery problem. There is that almost inaccessible fuel precleaner tucked way back behind primary fuel filter. (Is this the “fuel cup”) you were referring too? Take it apart and clean it. Change primary fuel filter. If the electrical side has been sorted out then check to make sure good flow gets to the pump. These steel tanks make a lot of rust, enough to the point that it can clog pickup tube in tank. The precleaner will tell that story, is it full of rust?

Yes that's the fuel cup I was referring to.

As for that starter that just stopped working after I wiggled some wires.

When I go to crank it. It doesn't even draw. Could this also be a bad relay maybe as I did try and check the fuse box.
Heater works still.
Glow plugs work still.
Lights and all accessories still work.

 

[CrimsonSky]

This white wire. Was it originally attached to anything important lol.

 

[74inchShovel]

Ok, that’s the primary filter. Will try to get pics of precleaner for fuel and starter wiring

 

[74inchShovel]

Cant get picture to post . I could get it to you email, maybe PM it? Long stories short, the white wire on my machine is power to starter solenoid, hot only when keyed to start position. Use a trouble light, check your white wire to see if it’s key hot. The fuel precleaner is directly behind the primary filter, so it’s not even visible. No one knows they’re even there which is why there never serviced. About size and shape of a shot glass. You’ll have to bleed air out of fuel system anytime on a diesel if you get into filtered etc.

 

[CrimsonSky]

Cant get picture to post . I could get it to you email, maybe PM it? Long stories short, the white wire on my machine is power to starter solenoid, hot only when keyed to start position. Use a trouble light, check your white wire to see if it’s key hot. The fuel precleaner is directly behind the primary filter, so it’s not even visible. No one knows they’re even there which is why there never serviced. About size and shape of a shot glass. You’ll have to bleed air out of fuel system anytime on a diesel if you get into filtered etc.

Yes not sure if you can see in the picture but it's right behind in that filter. It's a crappy picture but I know which you mean.

I'll test that white wire.

If it is that wire. Where did it used to go on that starter. I'm pretty sure the tab on the solenoid must have broken off.

 

[74inchShovel]

Ok, looking at your picture you have two reds (battery hot) below with a wire on top. In between separating them is a small rectangular block of plastic. The terminal for white wire is to the left, towards engine of plastic block. Got a mirror on a stick? So looking at solenoid only it’s exactly at 9 o’clock hidden by rectangular plastic. My starter is identical,

 

[74inchShovel]

 

[74inchShovel]

Looking at your filter pic, precleaner is clearly visible right behind it. The bottom of plastic has a hex cast into it, I think it’s 1 1/16”

 

[CrimsonSky]

Ok, looking at your picture you have two reds (battery hot) below with a wire on top. In between separating them is a small rectangular block of plastic. The terminal for white wire is to the left, towards engine of plastic block. Got a mirror on a stick? So looking at solenoid only it’s exactly at 9 o’clock hidden by rectangular plastic. My starter is identical,

This one. Sorry it's fuzzy. But I think I can see it in this picture.

 

[74inchShovel]

I think that’s it. Get the engine to turn over and fuel is next

 

[CrimsonSky]

Update .

The white wire was the issue with the starter. I had so much dirt on the starter I couldn't even see the pin for the wire. Cleaned it with electrical cleaner really well. Plugged back in turned over perfect.

Next issue also solved.

Checked all the fuses. They were also all dirty so cleaned them all.

Then replaced the fuel filter and like mentioned it was full of rusty chunks. Amazing the prefilter wasn't that bad. But changed tje filter. Filled the filter with Deisel. Put back on. Primed it up. Started right up. Went out back as there was a little air in the lines. Primed it a little more and ran better then it ever has.

 

[CrimsonSky]

I think there might be two things going on. First thing I would do would be to verify when you go to start starter solenoid is getting battery voltage. I would make sure battery is fully charged then load test at an auto parts store. It might make good surface voltage that collapses under any sort of load.
The first half of your post sounds like a fuel delivery problem. There is that almost inaccessible fuel precleaner tucked way back behind primary fuel filter. (Is this the “fuel cup”) you were referring too? Take it apart and clean it. Change primary fuel filter. If the electrical side has been sorted out then check to make sure good flow gets to the pump. These steel tanks make a lot of rust, enough to the point that it can clog pickup tube in tank. The precleaner will tell that story, is it full of rust?

Update from my update lol.

Machine worked well again then out of nowhere decided it wouldn't start. It turns over very well.

So I checked the fuel just to make sure the gauge isn't off. I filled it right up.

Then I removed the fuel line that goes from the filter to the pump. Lots of fuel coming out there. Then removed the line at the pump. Lots of fuel there aswell.

I couldn't get an actual line to any of the injectors off as I didn't have the tools available.

I then tried it 5 more times. Each time with maybe 5 minutes in between.

Then about 10 minutes later I tried again and fired right up. Used it for another 2 hours solid. Shut it off and tried it again and starts fine.

Only thing I did different this time when it did finally go was wiggle the key. Figured what the heck, maybe the actual switch is corroded and maybe it would work. And who knows. Maybe that's what did it but seems unlikely.

I was told that if you have fuel and since it was already hot from working I shouldn't even need the glow plugs .

When it turns over when it doesn't start it doesn't even attempt to start , no black smoke or the odd hit. Just turns over.

So questions.

1- couldn't be the key switch.

2- could it be the injection pump. ( Would have thought though even if this was going it should not run perfectly fine when it does run )

3- is there an actual fuse that lets fuel flow and not to flow. I was under the impression these are all mechanical fuel pump and injection pump.

4- I've seen some posts about the fuel solenoid sticking and then tapping it lightly and they will start.

I'll post a picture of where I have good fuel to . And like I said I didn't try at the injectors.

Also I do not think it's the safety switch as that still allows it to start . Just doesn't allow the hydrolics to work. I've had that issue before years ago.

Thank for any help

 

[f311fr1]

Fuel stop solenoid

 

[thepumpguysc]

I can see the shut off solenoid in your pic..
It’s far left of your fingers..
Looks like a RedBull Can and is threaded into the pump drive housing.. has 1 wire on it.( I think)