1983 CAT 963, Potential Purchase. Need advice

[Cat977]

I should add that I wouldn't get any of the modern hydrostatic machines without oil analysis there's just too much expensive tight tolerance rotating equipment moving around in the same oil flow. If you have something going bad you can take that contamination and run it through the other pumps and motors and the damage the other pieces of equipment to say nothing about contaminating the pipes and the tank. I'm a little clueless about how you really clean up that whole mess... I guess that's what filters are for lol. If I owned a modern piece of hydrostatic machinery I'd be continuously running oil analysis so that you could predict a piece of equipment going bad and get it repaired before it wrecks the other pumps and motors. I haven't even driven one of the rear engine machines or even a hydrostatic one. I do love the idea of a rear engine and the ability to counter rotate the tracks. The sea models didn't have the hinge over cab for service but that's a good idea I guess that's why they brought it back lol...

A question to you that know more than I do about these rear engine machines. How much of the system is protected from cross-contamination?

 

[328ifun]

Thanks for that Cat977, awesome advice.
I came across this one that's nearby, not sure if it's worth going to look at or not. The price is considerably than others I have looked at, I think he'd take a fair cash price on it:

1970 CATERPILLAR 955L For Sale in Roanoke, Virginia

1970 CATERPILLAR 955L For Sale in Roanoke, Virginia at www.heavyequipmentsolutions.net. OROPS, RUNS AND OPERATES GOOD. VIDEOS AVAILABLE!!

www.heavyequipmentsolutions.net

 

[Cat977]

I'll compare it to the one on eBay so you have a reference. The one on eBay has a heavier duty much nicer bucket. If you look at the frame on the top back it's got rails around it. The teeth are better on it and on the one you sent just now you'll see some deep scallops between the teeth That's quite a bit of wear and the teeth may be starting to come loose. There's a leak on the left lift cylinder on the one on eBay. If you go and look at it see how much it's dripping I've used them quite while they're dripping a little. The paint's newer on this most recent one but yet the rust is bleeding through. I actually like them with older paint because they're not hiding anything and you know the paint's stuck on well cuz it's not falling off! On this most recent one it looks like they changed the rails/chains and sprockets but reused the pads, bottom rollers and the front idlers. If the bearing on the front idlers isn't loose they could go a while. If you look at a close-up of the front left idler It looks like the chains are riding deep into the bottom roller. You can prop the machine up with the bucket and go around see if those things are wobbly when you spin them by hand. I don't know how far they'll go. They welded bars across the triple grousers that were already pretty worn already, they put it on the back wrung. I'd say that's the wrong side should have should have been the front like a dozer. The rollover protection on the one you just sent I think is aftermarket whereas the one on eBay you can see that it has isolation joints right at the base of the pillars you'll see a little apparatus there I believe it's a rubber it's got a crossbolt through it. I think it keeps the rattling sound down. Looks like Cat. The aftermarket one I don't know if those things can crack the metal the welds or just make a lot of noise It doesn't have the kind of cross back brackets or fillets in. The exhaust doesn't have a rain flapper or a curved pipe at the top to keep the rain out. Little inexpensive stuff like that that's not done gives me concern about what else is not done. Think of this like a marrige... what kind of bride is worth the trouble that... comes with old age.

 

[MG84]

Thanks for that Cat977, awesome advice.
I came across this one that's nearby, not sure if it's worth going to look at or not. The price is considerably than others I have looked at, I think he'd take a fair cash price on it:

1970 CATERPILLAR 955L For Sale in Roanoke, Virginia

1970 CATERPILLAR 955L For Sale in Roanoke, Virginia at www.heavyequipmentsolutions.net. OROPS, RUNS AND OPERATES GOOD. VIDEOS AVAILABLE!!

www.heavyequipmentsolutions.net

If it's close by go take a look. If there is some place you can run it for half an hour, push some dirt, etc that will tell you a lot more than what we can over the internet.

 

[Georgia Iron]

Hey everyone, I’m new here. First off, thanks for having me!

I have about 11 acres, mostly wooded, and I’d like to clear some trees and move dirt as needed. I’m looking for a dozer, and since I have some large hardwoods, I’m leaning toward something heavy-duty. Some of my trees are 64 inches wide and weigh a lot, so I need something with substantial weight.

I found a 1983 Caterpillar 963 with a 4+1 bucket nearby. The current owner used it to clear land for his house. It has about 16,500 hours on it. There’s no record of the engine, transmission, or pumps being replaced or overhauled, but the seller recently did a cylinder head job because of a burnt valve. He also replaced the injectors, injector gaskets, muffler, belts, idler, and a few other parts. The machine starts up easily and sounds good. It seems to move well, and the bucket is in good shape with only a small amount of slop. I had a friend who owns an excavating business check it out, and he said the undercarriage looks pretty good, with the pins already rotated. The right track could be tightened, but otherwise, there are no major issues. There’s no smoke at idle, so there doesn’t seem to be any blowby.

However, the indicator panel to the right doesn’t work, and the ignition key is stuck, though I believe I can fix that easily. The seat is in rough shape, and there’s some rust on the panels. The machine spent most of its life in Virginia Beach with a couple who used it for clearing work.

The seller is asking $18,750 and isn’t willing to lower the price. He’s trying to recoup his investment in the machine. I’m hesitant to make the purchase and am unsure if I should move forward. My main concerns are the hours on the machine and the potential need for major component replacements soon. I know that any older machine could have these issues, but I’m not sure how the drivetrain on these dozers holds up and whether the hours are a significant concern.

I would really appreciate any advice or insights you might have. I don’t want to end up with a 40,000-pound paperweight in my driveway right away, but I understand that repairs will be necessary. I’m just unsure about how soon these repairs might be needed and how much use I’d get out of the dozer. Should I go ahead with the purchase or hold off? I think a lot of others who have went and checked it out have had the same concerns because it's been for sale for 3 years at around 21k, but he told me he'd take less.

I don't agree with all the fear mongering here. Tell the guy selling the 963 that you want to use it on site. Then test run the heck out it. Loosening up a big area of ground, like 3 feet deep loose, get it the loose ground and get a heaping bucket of dirt in it. Check out how turns under load and fully check it each way for good counter rotation and see how fast the bucket raises.

Load it up against a dirt bank it can't move, does it spin the tracks. It should roll them over and dig in. Check that the tractor runs good under hard digging for an hour. You should feel the engine rhythm in your butt it should not have weird vibrations they have a harmonic feel.

Watch the temps, take a temp gun, does it run hot? After hard use I let mine sit on low idle and let them cool down before shutting it off. Always have. Does it cool down on low idle? If so you may have a good working tractor, if you are really upto it drop the belly pans and look for rotten hoses and such. You will need to do it one you get it so get ready. It can work you as much as you work it. Owning an older tractor is work, you are keeping it alive.

Now get it bought and go put it to work. Figure it is going to cost you $35.00 per hour to run it when it's yours maybe even 40.00. If the under carraige has 25% left then that's about $6000 in value.

Figure that it will blow hoses for a while and be a PIA, with luck your hydro and engine will hold till you can get the cost out of it. Considering a new machine is 250 to 300 k you are light years ahead....

If you can do a few 5k jobs here and there they pay for themselves in no time.

Check your fluids watch over her and you will be fine. Run cat spec oil in the hyro and cheap oil in the lift circuit. Don't worry about new fluids that will happen when a hose blows... trees normally find the weak hose, had one blow down near the hydraulic tank this week. Even though it was down in the bottom corner of the machine it still covered me in hot oil and got in one of my eyes. I did not realize the return hoses could have that much pressure. It was like a hydraulic bomb, lost all the oil almost instantly. It is one of those hoses that have 2 90* fittings , one on each end. Normally must get the hydraulic tank loose and up to get the hose out. Redneck way is to cut the hose in half, make new hose with a straight coupling in an area you can reach with wrenchs and just slide it straight threw.

The biggest problem these things have is the exhaust system rotting and putting heat into the radiators. But I found a Chinese seller on ebay that sells a one piece flex pipe for about 15% of what cat charges. Just buy several and toss them when they start rusting out.

No way I would by a 55 or 77 they are getting old and everything rusts. Pipes etc

*unless it is a heck of a price or in just great condition. Neither are probably the case...

 

[spitzair]

I have zero experience with the rear-engined loaders but have 2 977H loaders that I bought for $5500 for both some 14 years ago now. For what I use them for they can’t be beat. The owner had passed away and his wife wasn’t sure what sort of condition they were in hence the price… They both ran but one ran poorly, turns out two pistons in the engine were melted from someone putting wrong injectors in there… so I got to learn about working on these machines. The loader frame being in the way does make access more difficult but I found it to be not too bad. The worst part on that job was having to jack the front of the machine up off the equalizer bar about 2 inches to get the oil pan off, everything else went relatively smooth. Parts were still available and honestly not even all that expensive. The machine runs great again now. As luck would have it, shortly after I bought them a huge job sorta fell into my lap for them - a movie was filmed on our land and they hired me with my 977 to build access roads, parking lots for the crew and all sorts of other odds and ends, the machines were paid for several times over and I was able to afford a cat technician to come and do a full service to my “daily driver” 977 since I still had to go do my day job and he did a very good thorough job. The only breakdowns I’ve had so far was one hydraulic line to the winch blew and the wire to the starter solenoid broke off. That was by far the biggest pain on that machine to date because the starter is buried behind the loader frame and with the arms all the way down it was almost impossible to get to. Took me hours to get a temporary wire on the darn thing so I could get it started and the arms up in the air so I could get in there and fix it right…
Anyway, where I’m going with this is if those older 977s or 955s are in good shape and they check out like what others are saying and you take care of it with good maintenance you should have a good machine to do what you need them to for a good long time. Keep us posted

 

[328ifun]

@Cat977, @spitzair

Awesome info and write up, thank you!! Glad to hear yours worked out @spitzair

I think the eBay one is the best bet too with everything you and everyone else is said.

The seller just called me and can have it hauled out here to me. However, I can't look at it.

He reassured me that's a solid machine, and offered to have it sent out for a $2500 deposit with a potential full asking price of $12,000 once delivered. He agreed to tighten the left track up before sending and send picture upon completion. The wet spot on the track he said is from where the spilled fluid filling the reservoir, which make sense. If I find any problems once it arrives, I can offer him less.

He's going to send paperwork, his ID and business information before I make the deposit with paperwork outline our terms of agreement.

What do you guys think? To be willing to ship a machine for $2500, does that tell us he is confident of the quality? Should I go for it? He seems a lot more easier to work and transparent then some of the local buyers I've talked to who are selling and the price is much lower. I sent him a message that since he asking 11 on ebay, that it I think it's a better starting point than 12 since it's what he is willing to accept including the deduction of ebay fees

https://www.ebay.com/itm/387004230924


Thanks everyone

 

[spitzair]

Not being able to look at it is a big red flag to me anyway… did he give you a good reason why? I’d be worried he’ll take your $2500 “deposit” and you’ll never hear from him again…

 

[mks]

I was thinking the same spitzair.
There are many similar threads here as well.

 

[328ifun]

Not being able to look at it is a big red flag to me anyway… did he give you a good reason why? I’d be worried he’ll take your $2500 “deposit” and you’ll never hear from him again…

Yeah that's a concerns, we will see if he is a legit business... Ill do some background him.|

He's like 6 hours away from, that's a hike. He preferred me to look at it but I cant get out there

 

[spitzair]

Oh I misunderstood then, I thought that he said you can't come look at it...

 

[328ifun]

No worries, I may have typed it wrong. He said he would like to me look at it if I can

 

[328ifun]

Looks like they did tighten the track...

 

[328ifun]

 

[328ifun]

Ok, so I looked him and figured out who he is. He's real and actually owns or owned a Demolition company in pa, hence the heaby equipment....

Looks like he did time,

Check this out

PENNSYLVANIA DEMOLITION CONTRACTOR SENTENCED FOR VIOLATING THE CLEAN AIR ACT | Eagle Environmental

Howard Parsons of Holland, Pa, was sentenced on July 21, in U. S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia for his c

eagleenvironmental.squarehook.com

 

[Georgia Iron]

.....

 

[Cat977]

I wonder if the punishment fits the crime... He sure paid dearly! What about getting someone close to him from a heavy equipment repair place to go check it out. There could be something wrong with it he hasn't noticed yet. A track tensioner with a bad grease seal can pump up but yet tracks get loose very fast. I think that model has a split link so the repair isn't that bad the job of course he gets a little tougher on a 977 . I use a skid steer with a stump bucket and some chains to help pull those tracks around. A 60-in oak tree would be a lot of digging and pushing for 977 I hope you don't have too many of them. Size sometimes can really make a difference. A 955 would sure be a lot more friendly or machine to own. You may have to dig pretty deep around the big trees before you can push them over with the 955. Now that I'm 65 the idea of cheaper parts that are a lot lighter does sound good. I love my big machines and I can't see parting with them. Getting in and out of tight places makes the 955 shine I would think.

 

[328ifun]

I wonder if the punishment fits the crime... He sure paid dearly! What about getting someone close to him from a heavy equipment repair place to go check it out. There could be something wrong with it he hasn't noticed yet. A track tensioner with a bad grease seal can pump up but yet tracks get loose very fast. I think that model has a split link so the repair isn't that bad the job of course he gets a little tougher on a 977 . I use a skid steer with a stump bucket and some chains to help pull those tracks around. A 60-in oak tree would be a lot of digging and pushing for 977 I hope you don't have too many of them. Size sometimes can really make a difference. A 955 would sure be a lot more friendly or machine to own. You may have to dig pretty deep around the big trees before you can push them over with the 955. Now that I'm 65 the idea of cheaper parts that are a lot lighter does sound good. I love my big machines and I can't see parting with them. Getting in and out of tight places makes the 955 shine I would think.

Thanks again Cat977, super helpful as always. I looked into have someone go and look at for $500 bucks it would cost, they are in his area. Definitely could be a good assurance.

I looked into him a bit more he has quite the list of charges one of which includes adultering goods, call me weird for looking people I feel like there are less and less honest people these days. He hasn't really been in too much trouble as of late, most them are I think are well over 10 years old, aside one from minor one.

Definitely could be something wrong with the track, I've got a Kioti CK20s, it's a powerful little machine with a front loader that could really help work on of these machines and lift parts. I've used to drag fairly large trees around but it tends to bog down when they get binded or stuck in the ground a little but I usually can get them unstuck and drag them right along.

As far as the Oaks, I've got not very many that I would need a tree surgeon to drop for me (close to structures), my thought was using the dozer to relocate them and pickup or push them to their final destination (the burn pit). I've got also some land that's already cleared but overgrown with wild bushes and shrubs that'd a 955l would be great for cleaning up. I also love shooting guns, I do almost daily, I've some nice dirt piled from an excavator that I had before I sold that it could be great for making a nice berm as well as moving dirt around the property.

But as far as digging them up, aside from a few I'd be dropping most of them anyway and probably just digging the stumps up after

The other options I've been considering is a decent skid steer with a grapple, to me these are bit more surgical though and not as powerful, but they are faster and get the job done quicker, but can't move as much as dirt at once. There also more expensive and just as hard to find in good shape for the right price as track loader.

 

[Welder Dave]

Demolition is about the hardest environment for a track loader. Do you have the serial number? It could be a 955K with L stickers with a D330 engine. I personally would be pretty leery of someone who spent time in jail and had several charges against him. Last thought is $11,000 seems pretty low for a good 955K/L. Kind of the if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Welder Dave]

I wonder if the punishment fits the crime... He sure paid dearly! What about getting someone close to him from a heavy equipment repair place to go check it out. There could be something wrong with it he hasn't noticed yet. A track tensioner with a bad grease seal can pump up but yet tracks get loose very fast. I think that model has a split link so the repair isn't that bad the job of course he gets a little tougher on a 977 . I use a skid steer with a stump bucket and some chains to help pull those tracks around. A 60-in oak tree would be a lot of digging and pushing for 977 I hope you don't have too many of them. Size sometimes can really make a difference. A 955 would sure be a lot more friendly or machine to own. You may have to dig pretty deep around the big trees before you can push them over with the 955. Now that I'm 65 the idea of cheaper parts that are a lot lighter does sound good. I love my big machines and I can't see parting with them. Getting in and out of tight places makes the 955 shine I would think.

Exposing people to asbestos is pretty serious.