2004 International 7300

[cfherrman]

So the automatic is essentially capable of a deeper reduction than it's lowest ratio when starting from a stop?

It probably wouldn't be a fun project. I'm just trying to determine if it's even feasible at the moment.

Yes but I have limited understanding of it and it also matters of your torque converter, there will be some situations where a manual would get you up a hill from a stop but the auto won't make it without a run up.

Is your transfer case connected to the trans or something s there a drive shaft in-between?

 

[materthegreater]

My old C65 Chevy had two speed rear (Eaton), Can't remember low gear ratio, but very low, 8:1? & 5 speed (Eaton) 427 gas tall block GM motor.
New Top Kick, very similar size. Towing a backhoe up the paved hill on Danby Mountain Road parts are 15% grade.
Old truck would run out of gas in the carburetor if the tank wasn't full, until I found a cracked O ring on a fuel filter cannister. When it WAS running right it'd be a high stress situation. Low/low full throttle, I wasn't sure if it was going to make it. More than once I'd unload at the bottom of the hill, & drive the backhoe to the top. Being near the top is a frightening situation when the truck won't pull it!
"New" truck is the same size, 500 LB more GVWR, empty truck 300 LBS heavier. Turbo diesel Cat 3208 10.4 liter is rated same HP as the 427 in the old truck. Axle is 4.99 approx. Allison crawls up slowly, but without effort. Only concern is traction, as The Allison goes to low gear & the torque converter then makes up the difference. My engine has most torque under 2000 RPM, so I keep engine at 1800-2000 & it does the rest.

I agree, some situations a manual transmission is better, & I love going through the gears, it's fun! In truth Allison is a great transmission & nothing climbs like an Allison. Allison demonstrates their ability to start halfway up a steep hill. Quite remarkable how it can feed just over zero speed to the wheels to get started without the sudden surge of power that'll break traction.

This truck has a axle gear ratio 5.86. I have not yet been able to find out the transmission gear ratios yet. The engine is rated at 215 HP, 560 ft lbs torque.

I was using it on a job a couple weeks ago (first job I've actually used it for other than plowing), and it really had a difficult time on the hills, even empty. On one hill that isn't even very steep, it would drop down to 35 MPH in a 50 MPH zone when empty. Turns out I had a brake dragging so I'm sure that's some of the problem, but I still think the gears are too far apart for the power (or lack of) the engine has.

Maybe instead of swapping in a manual transmission I should be looking for a more powerful engine instead...

 

[materthegreater]

Yes but I have limited understanding of it and it also matters of your torque converter, there will be some situations where a manual would get you up a hill from a stop but the auto won't make it without a run up.

Is your transfer case connected to the trans or something s there a drive shaft in-between?

There is a short driveshaft between the transmission and transfer case.

 

[cfherrman]

Really I think your truck is fine. You could probably look at some mods for the dt466 I'm sure there is a bunch out there if you could get it to 300 HP.

 

[Willie B]

There is a short driveshaft between the transmission and transfer case.

Divorced

 

[materthegreater]

There should be a aluminium tag somewhere on the transfer case that will identify it. With that info you should be able to find all the info on Meritor's website.

Found it! Haven't been able to find anything on their website for the 4208GS version though. Maybe it's old enough that they don't have the info readily available for it. The info I've found is for the 4208XL and 4208 10X.

 

[materthegreater]

Really I think your truck is fine. You could probably look at some mods for the dt466 I'm sure there is a bunch out there if you could get it to 300 HP.

Hopefully after this brake job I will have better luck on the hills. If it can maintain 50mph empty on the gentle hills I'll quit whining! I am interested in the engine mods though. 300 HP would be a nice improvement over 215.

 

[Willie B]

I met a guy who pulled modified tractors. He used DT466, said he gets 1200 HP from them. Claimed it is the toughest crank & he buys them cheaper than any other engine. That said, he lied about everything else he told me.

 

[cfherrman]

Lol that's funny.

Dt466 is a really good engine I bet there is plenty of mod support and info out there.

 

[materthegreater]

Almost ready to reassemble.

 

[materthegreater]

Brake job is done, now I need to test it out and see if it can go up hills without losing so much speed when empty. It does seem a bit more "free" when moving it around the yard.

 

[materthegreater]

Well, it still is struggling quite a bit on the hills. I was talking with a local guy who has a 4400 that is the same year and also has the DT466, but his has a manual transmission. His does much better, I think because there isn't so much RPM difference between the gears. Though it is also possible that his 466 is higher rated than mine.

I think I either need to increase the power somehow, or change the transmission to get more gears so I can take advantage of the power that I have.

 

[crane operator]

I find manually shifting my allison's in steep hills does help. But the reality of it is- you have similar short steep hills in VT as what I have here, and its not going to drive like a car. A drop from 50 to 30mph on a hill doesn't surprise me at all.

Realize that the "dump truckers" in your area are probably similar to here. They probably only weigh another 5,000 or so lbs more than you empty, but they are running N-14, 3406, 12.7 detroits with 1,400-1,800 ft lbs of torque in those big block engines. Empty- they will accelerate like a car.

The 466 and a allison is a good engine and transmission combo in a medium duty truck, changing to a manual isn't going to help that much.

If you are really wanting upgrades, you would be better off spending your money on a "cut down" bigger truck, than trying to make your 466 something its not.

Guys here will take a tandem dump with big block power, and cut down to single axle with short dump for their site trucks.

Hp doesn't matter near as much as torque specs when your discussing hill climbing. And there's no replacement for displacement. (Bigger engines put out more power).

 

[cfherrman]

I'd definitely look into raising boost, cheap and effective.

 

[Willie B]

Mine is a whole lot different than your truck. Mine is Cat 3208 10.4 Liter with low boost turbo rated 250 HP. I'm not sure of the torque I think about 800 Ft Lbs. Empty the truck with my fat ass weighs about 14000. I'll skate up 11/30 from Manchester to Bromley at near speed limit empty. At 28000, it's flashers & 25 MPH. With trailer & 16000 backhoe I might be down to 15 MPH part of the hill. It is not a Corvette! I've considered adding boost to the engine, my transmission is rated for 250 HP. Maybe a whole different truck but this one is paid for. I think I'm going to be patient on the long steep hills when I'm loaded.

 

[mekanik]

Can you post or PM me the last eight of the VIN. I can look up the engine power rating you might be able to flash a higher HP firmware into the ECM.

 

[materthegreater]

I find manually shifting my allison's in steep hills does help. But the reality of it is- you have similar short steep hills in VT as what I have here, and its not going to drive like a car. A drop from 50 to 30mph on a hill doesn't surprise me at all.

Realize that the "dump truckers" in your area are probably similar to here. They probably only weigh another 5,000 or so lbs more than you empty, but they are running N-14, 3406, 12.7 detroits with 1,400-1,800 ft lbs of torque in those big block engines. Empty- they will accelerate like a car.

The 466 and a allison is a good engine and transmission combo in a medium duty truck, changing to a manual isn't going to help that much.

If you are really wanting upgrades, you would be better off spending your money on a "cut down" bigger truck, than trying to make your 466 something its not.

Guys here will take a tandem dump with big block power, and cut down to single axle with short dump for their site trucks.

Hp doesn't matter near as much as torque specs when your discussing hill climbing. And there's no replacement for displacement. (Bigger engines put out more power).

I don't expect it to drive like a car, and I agree that going from 50 to 30 on a hill is normal when loaded. But doing that empty seems a bit anemic.

I should have been more specific about changing the transmission. I agree that going from a 5 speed auto to a 6 speed manual wouldn't help much, but going to a 10 or 13 speed should help because the gears would be closer together. The main problem with the Allison is the gear spread is too wide. The engine hits the rev limit before upshifting, and then after shifting it's back down below the turbo and has very little torque and can't maintain speed.

This is the way I understand it, but I could be way off.

 

[materthegreater]

Can you post or PM me the last eight of the VIN. I can look up the engine power rating you might be able to flash a higher HP firmware into the ECM.

4J087948.

Thanks, that would be great. I wonder if since it's a Gov spec vehicle the power/torque rating would have been set up differently than a civilian vehicle would have been.

 

[materthegreater]

Mine is a whole lot different than your truck. Mine is Cat 3208 10.4 Liter with low boost turbo rated 250 HP. I'm not sure of the torque I think about 800 Ft Lbs. Empty the truck with my fat ass weighs about 14000. I'll skate up 11/30 from Manchester to Bromley at near speed limit empty. At 28000, it's flashers & 25 MPH. With trailer & 16000 backhoe I might be down to 15 MPH part of the hill. It is not a Corvette! I've considered adding boost to the engine, my transmission is rated for 250 HP. Maybe a whole different truck but this one is paid for. I think I'm going to be patient on the long steep hills when I'm loaded.

I don't have a boost gauge yet so I don't know what it's making. I think the truck empty is about 15000 lbs. There is no way it would go up 11 from Manchester to Bromley anywhere near speed limit empty. Loaded I would probably be 15 mph also. Maybe less.

I'm not sure what my transmission is rated for but some quick searching brings up 300 HP or more depending on the year or other variables.

 

[mekanik]

From the Navistar site:
ENGINE, DIESEL {International DT466 Standard Torque} EPA 1998, Electro-Hydraulic Fuel System, 215HP @ 2300/2600 RPM, 560 lb-ft Torque @ 1400 RPM, 2600 RPM Governed Speed, 225 Peak HP (Max)

I believe the highest HP rating for the DT466e was 230 HP.