2005 Case 580 SM - Bad Engine Trouble Where To Start

[Mike4799]

A little background, just purchased this backhoe from Iron Planet auction it is showing 2400 hours on meter and meter is turning. It has a fuel drip at the injection pump. It is a Bosch VE style pump. It looks like a common problem with these units leaking at the hydraulic head o-ring. I ordered parts to fix it but watching videos people live with it for a while so I thought it was safe to use the machine a little.

I was moving some dirt for about 30 minutes everything fine when the engine revved up and exhaust was putting out black smoke. It sounds like it is knocking but not sure if it is mechanical or from combustion. Turned the key off and it kept running tried to stall it with load from the hydraulics. It stopped after maybe 10 seconds.

I went a got something to block the intake and I pulled the fuse for the fuel shut off. It tried to start it and it cranked a little slower it did start there was some knocking and it shut off after a couple of seconds with a bit of smoke.

It does have oil in it.

Is it possible it is oil seals on turbo?
Stuck open injector?
Massive internal mechanical failure?

What should be my first step for diagnosis? I was going to pull the turbo first and then maybe valve covers.

I am pretty handy but do not have much diesel experience other than resealing a Stanadyne injecting pump on my JLG forklift. Thanks for any help. I have been lurking on this site for quite a while now.

 

[Mike4799]

Ok. I pulled the intake pipe between the turbo and engine and there is oil on the surfaces of the pipe and I can see some on the bottom of the intake "plenum".

How oily should the intake tract be?

Is it common for an engine to pull in enough oil to hydro lock it when the turbo seals fail?

What should I do about the oil still in there as far as cranking the engine over?

 

[Mike4799]

Looks like the piping from the air cleaner is oily so looking like it is from the breather. Is excessive oil mist from the breather the cause or a symptom of a bigger problem?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Mike4799]

I am guessing it is an overfueling issue. I put a blockoff plate and put it under the intake pipe. I cranked it over a few times to try to clear the cylinders.
It did not start. Then i drilled a 3/4" hole in the blockoff plate and cranked it over again. I had the fuse out for the fuel solenoid. It did not make any attempt to start. It did sound normal as far as cranking compression. I then put the fuel solenoid fuse back in and started it. It started with quite a bit of gray smoke. I shut it off after a second. Then I stupidly tried again and it started to run away with a lot of gray smoke. I choked it off and it stopped. It probably only revved to 2500-3000 rpm.

I forgot to mention that it has a reman injection pump. There is a tag on it which says remanufactured.
I put in 10 gallons of diesel yesterday because it was almost empty. I put in a few ounces of Stanadyne lubricant additive and a little bit of algicide. Could either of these cause problems?

 

[Mike4799]

There is a diaphragm housing on the top of the injection pump with a line coming off of it and going into the intake manifold.
Can someone explain what this is? Is it some sort of cold start device?

My factory service manual does not go into any detail about the injection pump. Still looking around online.

 

[Mike4799]

Manifold Pressure Compensator?

 

[Mike4799]

The diaphragm does have a small tear in it. Will this cause my overfueling problem?

 

[Mike4799]

Large amount of fuel was being put into intake from manifold pressure compensator line. Disconnected line and with some tubing ran it it a fuel can and was able to move machine to where I can complete the repairs.

Anyone know where to get parts for these pumps? I am not having any luck finding this diaphragm so far.

 

[Coy Lancaster]

Is this a 580SM II machine with inj. pump mounted on rear of engine?

 

[Mike4799]

Yes it is.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I just got done doing 1 for another fine HEF'r..
1 BIG PROBLEM THO.. There ISNT supposed to be any fuel UP THERE.. THATS what his problem was.. but his diaphragm wasn't torn.
Fuel leaking out of the breather hole, directly above the return line..
THAT MIGHT BE where your fuel leak is coming from & dripping down around the head.??
To be honest, this is the first "perfect storm" I've heard about.. Fuel leaking into the aneroid & a torn diaphragm allowing fuel to be pushed into the intake.!!!

 

[thepumpguysc]

How about getting the #'s off your pump & going to a fuel shop & asking them to get u a diaphragm..??
BUT like I said.. it'll solve/postpone your run-away {feeding fuel into the intake} but u haven't solved the problem.. there isn't supposed to be fuel up there..
Theres a tiny oring & gasket that's gone bad, deeper in the top cover.

 

[Vetech63]

just purchased this backhoe from Iron Planet auction

Problem #1

I was going to pull the turbo first

Problem #2 ……….Look for the impeller on both sides striking the housing. It is unlikely that you have a turbo failure....yet.

Correction #1 Do EVERYTHING Pumpguy says.
Correction #2 "See correction #1"

 

[Mike4799]

Thanks for the reply thepumpguysc. I am digesting what you said now. The part number on the pump is 2852046R. Remanned by SRC.

 

[Coy Lancaster]

Thanks for the reply thepumpguysc. I am digesting what you said now. The part number on the pump is 2852046R. Remanned by SRC.[/Q

Yes it is.

That pump is an Iveco pump and not a Bosh VE pump. When I worked for Case we had a lot of trouble with these, they would destroy themselves internally and take out injectors also.

 

[thepumpguysc]

LOL.. THATS the exact pump # of the 1 I finished yesterday, that had the leaking oring & was leaking out the "breather"..

 

[Mike4799]

Coy it does have "Bosch" cast into it.
Pumpguy, something was tickling at me that I was missing something because it seemed a bad design that a single failure of the diaphragm would cause fuel to be sucked into the engine. I was assuming fuel was supposed to be there.
That there is supposed to be no fuel in there plus a "breather to bleed off leakage makes much more sense.

I wonder if this o ring was never changed when the pump was remanned because it seems like a bit of a pain to get to.

Thanks again. I knew I would get some flack for the auction buy.

 

[thepumpguysc]

U can tell if its been changed by looking just above the hi & low speed screws.. "Factory" assembly is pressed in balls..
"Reman" are plugs where the balls usta go..
BTW> its a Bosch VE pump..

 

[thepumpguysc]

U "sound like" a fella that's gonna tear into it regardless of what I say.. so I'll say it UP FRONT..
DO NOT ATTEMPT to fix the problem w/o prior VE pump experience..
There are SO MANY pitfalls that await..
Other than taking it off, all I can help with is maybe a diaphragm #..

 

[Mike4799]

Is it worse than a stanadyne DB4 pump? I disassembled and reassembled one of those. Only thing I didn't take apart was the pump shoes and rolllers.
I see lots of videos on youtube of people working on these pumps. I ordered a cummins ve pump diaphragm from ebay and a general o-ring gasket set. Will see if it fits. I only need to remove the top cover.
Your warning is duly noted.