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580CK Lost hydraulics while digging

TSemenuk

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Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
I was digging a trench and the backhoe wouldn't swing back after dumping the bucket. I tried all controls including the loader and nothing worked. No massive leaks under her and I didn't hear any unusual sounds. Is there any troubleshooting I can do before removing the hydraulic pump from behind the grille? Perhaps the coupler has broken?
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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WI
you can check the fluid level, but I'd say your guess is as good as any. If you can't see to tell if the pump shaft is turning, pulling the pump will show.

Do you get any attempt to move out of any of the hydraulic functions? even the ones with no weight on them like bucket tilt? if you do, then it could be a jammed relief valve, but it could still be a slipping drive shaft too.
 
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TSemenuk

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Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
you can check the fluid level, but I'd say your guess is as good as any. If you can't see to tell if the pump shaft is turning, pulling the pump will show.

Do you get any attempt to move out of any of the hydraulic functions? even the ones with no weight on them like bucket tilt? if you do, then it could be a jammed relief valve, but it could still be a slipping drive shaft too.

The tractor is up in the air on the outriggers and loader bucket so everything has weight on it except the backhoe which is just self-weight. If I take the outlet hose off the pump and I don't see oil pumping while cranking the engine, I'll know the pump isn't turning. Correct?
 

Delmer

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As long as there's oil in the pump, then yes, it will at least move the oil if it's turning. You might have something else besides the splines stripped, or if it's the splines it might work for years with just the shaft portion of the coupler replaced and greased. I don't know about that case, but MF for instance is a common spline and very easy to get, compared to a new hydraulic pump driveshaft.
 

Coy Lancaster

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Dec 19, 2014
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This is what I was thinking/fearing but I was hoping there would be a shear pin in there. Guess not.
Unfortunately there isn’t a shear pin. You can get some longer bolts for the coupler and washers to go between the crank pulley. That will at least allow you to get machine to better place to do repair.
 

TSemenuk

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Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
Unfortunately there isn’t a shear pin. You can get some longer bolts for the coupler and washers to go between the crank pulley. That will at least allow you to get machine to better place to do repair.
Are you saying it won't drive without that pump? I manually jacked up the outriggers and buckets to move it but haven't as of yet. Are the bolts and washers to space the pump out further to catch a good spot on the coupler?
 

shopguy

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Jul 2, 2011
Messages
507
Location
Alabama
You can drill the coupler and shaft and put a 1/4 inch grade 8 through it,l bought a 580 B that ran that way for several years and now you got your shear pin
 

TSemenuk

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Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
I don't use this machine much and haven't ever changed the hydraulic fluid filter. Could this be a possible cause? The hex head on top of the housing is stripped so I'll have to find another way to remove it.
 

Coytee

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May 30, 2015
Messages
216
Location
Knoxville, TN
my 1550b has a filter in the engine bay. after owning it for 20 years, i discovered it also has a screen filter INSIDE the hydraulic tank. have to drain tank, remove a plate to access. make sure you know about all of yours if/when you check
 

Tinkerer

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May 21, 2009
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The shore of the illinois river USA
I don't use this machine much and haven't ever changed the hydraulic fluid filter. Could this be a possible cause? The hex head on top of the housing is stripped so I'll have to find another way to remove it.
The condition of the filter has nothing to do with the pump spline and coupler failure.
If it is the a spline failure it may be cheaper to replace the pump due to the cost of a new input shaft for it.
There are 4 four 5/16th's bolts that hold the cap on the hydraulic filter if your 580 is a CK with no letter following the ck.
 

TSemenuk

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Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
The condition of the filter has nothing to do with the pump spline and coupler failure.
If it is the a spline failure it may be cheaper to replace the pump due to the cost of a new input shaft for it.
There are 4 four 5/16th's bolts that hold the cap on the hydraulic filter if your 580 is a CK with no letter following the ck.
I'm trying to consider all other possibilities before removing the pump.
 

Coy Lancaster

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The hyd. pump has nothing to do with the transmission, it's only function is to provide oil to the hyd. system.
 

Delmer

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That hex head isn't so bad, get a six point socket that fits it tight. file it flat if needed to get it on there. Tap around the base of the outer threaded part with a hammer to loosen the corrosion. Heat the outside a little, 200F or so. Put pressure on a breaker bar on the hex head and keep tapping.

If there's a suction strainer, and it's completely plugged, then it could cause a loss of hydraulics, especially if there's a suction leak also. Not likely though.

It will drive without the hydraulics, just easier if the buckets are off the ground.
 

TSemenuk

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Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
Thanks
That hex head isn't so bad, get a six point socket that fits it tight. file it flat if needed to get it on there. Tap around the base of the outer threaded part with a hammer to loosen the corrosion. Heat the outside a little, 200F or so. Put pressure on a breaker bar on the hex head and keep tapping.

If there's a suction strainer, and it's completely plugged, then it could cause a loss of hydraulics, especially if there's a suction leak also. Not likely though.

It will drive without the hydraulics, just easier if the buckets are off the ground.

Thanks Delmer. Nothing seems to hold in the up position. I have the the backhoe bucket and outriggers up and strapped, the loader bucket is raised off the ground and I'm going to block the rams to hold it. I don't know how to hold the boom up to drive it off the driveway. Might have to just drag it behind when I park it.
 

TSemenuk

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Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
I went brain dead and was thinking of the transmission filter housing.
I got the filter housing off and found the filter different from what the dealer sold me. It didn't looked plugged by any means. I strapped up all her appendages and drove it off the driveway to a suitable work location and I could hear a clanking sound up front so I suspect as everyone else, the coupler is likely toast. We'll know after lunch as long as it wants to be removed.
 

TSemenuk

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Nov 13, 2019
Messages
88
Location
Lakeside, Ontario
She was a previous drill and bolt recipient due to a stripped input shaft and coupler. The input shaft broke at the bolt.
I'm on the hunt for another pump in Ontario. If anyone has any leads on one I would be interested.
 
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