Cummins 4BT(?) no crank, voltage good, started a week ago.

[RenoHuskerDu]

I don't see a place in this forum to place Cummins questions. Did I miss it?

I'm not actually sure it's a 4BT. The CPL is 2857, engine family is 1CEXL0239ABA and it was built in 2001. It's in a MX13XT-01 loader/grader/ripper, no pump disconnect that I know of. But it's not even trying.

Any tips? I tried cleaning the starter contacts and tapping on the solenoid.

 

[funwithfuel]

Seat switch, implement lockout, safety belt, neutral safety switch, crank relay, fuses, parking brake. Is it in gear? Thesesre things I'd be checking.

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

Thanks, all good stuff. But this machine doesn't have any safety nanny stuff, don't think it ever did. Checking fuses is one thing I shoulda done ... doh ... thanks.

 

[cuttin edge]

There is a switch on the foot feed. If you turn the key and rock it back and forth between forward and reverse, it might kick

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

There is a switch on the foot feed. If you turn the key and rock it back and forth between forward and reverse, it might kick

I was hoping you'd chip in, as we have the same machines and so far I think there are only two of us with MX13XTs in the forum. I tested the wiring and found that she'll start up just fine if I jump 12v to the starter solenoid with a little thin wire. So the key isn't sending 12v to the solenoid like it should when I twist it. But turning the ignition on does turn on the gauges. Odd.

Then, after running for a while, I noticed that she isn't charging. Do these Mauldins have a fuse box somewhere? I've never see one, just one fuse on a harness right behind the alternator. It tested good. Mine has three pushbotton circuit breaker resets on the dash. I tried them.

I'll try the foot switch idea. But I don't see how that would keep it from charging.

 

[Simon C]

You need to test the key switch for burnt internal contacts. If the starter cranks with a jumper wire to the small S-Terminal from the solenoid large hot post, that rules out strarter problem.
Might need 2 people, Touch battery positive post with your Red test lead, and touch your black test lead to the starter switch "S" Terminal while holding the switch in the start position for like 10 seconds. If the reading on the meter is any more than 0.5 volts average on the meter display, your switch is most likely gone. Any reading over 1 volt is definitely burnt, but make sure the terminal screws or push on connectors are tight, depending on what you have. Hope you dont have a neutral safety switch, seat switch, or brake switch on that unit.
Let me know what reading you get and I will tell you what next.
Simon C

 

[cuttin edge]

I was hoping you'd chip in, as we have the same machines and so far I think there are only two of us with MX13XTs in the forum. I tested the wiring and found that she'll start up just fine if I jump 12v to the starter solenoid with a little thin wire. So the key isn't sending 12v to the solenoid like it should when I twist it. But turning the ignition on does turn on the gauges. Odd.

Then, after running for a while, I noticed that she isn't charging. Do these Mauldins have a fuse box somewhere? I've never see one, just one fuse on a harness right behind the alternator. It tested good. Mine has three pushbotton circuit breaker resets on the dash. I tried them.

I'll try the foot switch idea. But I don't see how that would keep it from charging.

Our x15 has a fuse box, but there is none on either of our x13. My gauges are above the windshield, and there are 4 breakers. They also have an electric park brake, and it has to be on to turn over. Our older Puckett and Alitec had a line lock brake by the seat. My neutral switch is on the valve on the pump. The puckett and Alitec had a switch on the linkage. Sometimes if it won't start, you could hold the starter on, and rock the peddle back and forth, and it will kick.

 

[Georgia Iron]

If that machine uses a hydraulic drive pump, it has a safety on the pump to disengage the hydraulic drive when the breaks are hit and when you are starting it. This typically has a foot pedal brake sensor and a drive position sensor to stop it from cranking while in gear. Will your machine drive with the motor running and the key in the stop position. Does the brake pedal work to stop the machine? Did you try turning the key to start with the motor running does the starter engage or does the power system turn on. Do you have work lights, with the key off?

Does your machine have a electrical fuel shut off solenoid? How does the motor cut itself off when you turn the key off. Mechanical fuel shutoff?

If your machine has a wiring harness it probably has several of these items. My grader has more things going on in it than I realized. I had to figure out how to get the drive going once I figured out how to crank the motor.

How did your motor start by jumping the solenoid without turning the fuel on? Key on, fuel solenoid on??


If I turn on the fuel and bypass the key with the 12v to the starter solenoid on my machine, I must turn on the key to the start position (not the run position), it will not try to start but it will send power to a relay somewhere. Once this occurs, all lighting and the charging circuit works. If I turn off the key switch the motor will keep running since I had to remove the electrical fuel shutoff solenoid, because it decided to melt in the middle of a critical grading job. I must manually kill the motor now, the lighting circuit stays on even when the key is off, until the motor is shut off. The generator/ alternator is powering everything until the thing stops turning. My machine has a warning alarm that sounds if the key is on and the motor is off.

In order to get my grader to drive I must energize the safety on the pump. If I do this I loose my brakes and the motor will keep powering the pump even with the brakes applied and it does not want to stop. I can not let anyone use my high tech machine for fear they will freeze up and not be able to control it in the heat of the moment.

I had to figure all this out, without a manual, while it was sitting on a trailer with 20 guys looking at me wondering why I was not working.

 

[Welder Dave]

Newer technology isn't always better especially when something goes kaput.

 

[cuttin edge]

If that machine uses a hydraulic drive pump, it has a safety on the pump to disengage the hydraulic drive when the breaks are hit and when you are starting it. This typically has a foot pedal brake sensor and a drive position sensor to stop it from cranking while in gear. Will your machine drive with the motor running and the key in the stop position. Does the brake pedal work to stop the machine? Did you try turning the key to start with the motor running does the starter engage or does the power system turn on. Do you have work lights, with the key off?

Does your machine have a electrical fuel shut off solenoid? How does the motor cut itself off when you turn the key off. Mechanical fuel shutoff?

If your machine has a wiring harness it probably has several of these items. My grader has more things going on in it than I realized. I had to figure out how to get the drive going once I figured out how to crank the motor.

How did your motor start by jumping the solenoid without turning the fuel on? Key on, fuel solenoid on??


If I turn on the fuel and bypass the key with the 12v to the starter solenoid on my machine, I must turn on the key to the start position (not the run position), it will not try to start but it will send power to a relay somewhere. Once this occurs, all lighting and the charging circuit works. If I turn off the key switch the motor will keep running since I had to remove the electrical fuel shutoff solenoid, because it decided to melt in the middle of a critical grading job. I must manually kill the motor now, the lighting circuit stays on even when the key is off, until the motor is shut off. The generator/ alternator is powering everything until the thing stops turning. My machine has a warning alarm that sounds if the key is on and the motor is off.

In order to get my grader to drive I must energize the safety on the pump. If I do this I loose my brakes and the motor will keep powering the pump even with the brakes applied and it does not want to stop. I can not let anyone use my high tech machine for fear they will freeze up and not be able to control it in the heat of the moment.

I had to figure all this out, without a manual, while it was sitting on a trailer with 20 guys looking at me wondering why I was not working.

No brakes on these. pull the throttle wide open, top of peddle forward, bottom of peddle reverse. Let go of peddle, stop

 

[Georgia Iron]

No brakes on these. pull the throttle wide open, top of peddle forward, bottom of peddle reverse. Let go of peddle, stop

sounds like a basic motor grader. how does it kill the fuel?

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

sounds like a basic motor grader. how does it kill the fuel?

It's on the IP. and it's a known weak point. Just lube it up, nudge the little arm a bit and you're good for another few months or more. But when that sticks you get crank no start. BTDT.

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

Our x15 has a fuse box, but there is none on either of our x13. My gauges are above the windshield, and there are 4 breakers. They also have an electric park brake, and it has to be on to turn over. Our older Puckett and Alitec had a line lock brake by the seat. My neutral switch is on the valve on the pump. The puckett and Alitec had a switch on the linkage. Sometimes if it won't start, you could hold the starter on, and rock the peddle back and forth, and it will kick.

I will take that switch out and examine its contacts, clean well and lube. Worst case, Mauldin parts being made of almost pure unobtanium, I'll wire in two switches to replace the faulty ignition switch. One for ignition and a momentary pushbutton for starter. I have the heavy steel door that padlocks down over the entire dash, so I don't really need a key ignition.

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

@cuttin edge I pulled the dash and took a look see. There are several inline fuses back there and a rodent nest. The fuses all are good and the rodents did not cut any wires, just damage insulation (see pic of Liquid Tape repair).

The ignition switch seems to be doing its job. All posts get 21v when they should, including the wire to energize the starter solenoid. See pic.

I'm guessing that further down under the cab another rodent issue interrupted the wires to the starter solenoid and the alternator field (because when I get it running it still won't charge). Next step is to chase those wires down or simply run a new set of wires in split loom. Any thought? Does yours have a field wire that comes from the ignition switch?

 

[Simon C]

That picture of liquid tape repair is good as long as the repair under was done right. Have used it in a few situations myself.
Simon C

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

That picture of liquid tape repair is good as long as the repair under was done right. Have used it in a few situations myself.
Simon C

Thanks. It's just the first step. After that coat dries in a day or so, I'll put on a thicker coat and wrap it in split loom.

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

I'm waking up this thread to ask if anyone knows this Bosch alternator. Of the three wires on it, I reckon the one with the arrow in the pic is the field/exciter. If I jumper 12v to that, it should bypass the chewed wire under the cab and let the alternator charge the battery.

Anybody agree?


If it's not that one, a spade connector, there is another wire on the other side that has a threaded post connector. I reckon it's a ground? Or maybe it's the field / exciter wire, and the spade connector is for the tachometer....


Here is the only ID that I found on the alternator. There's an old paper sticker that is not legible.

 

[Pickawinna]

I agree with that. Or at least that's the way I would do it without even thinking anything other.
May as well clean up the battery positive post and the terminal lead while you at. Keeping good track of the washers while you do.

 

[Pickawinna]

Have you tested the voltage to the red wire with the spade connector with ignition on and off?

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

Have you tested the voltage to the red wire with the spade connector with ignition on and off?

Dang. No. I should. Basics! Thank you