Digging/quarrying dolomite

[old grayfellow]

Hi
This is my first post on the heavy equipment forums, and i'm looking for suggestions or recommendations about how to do a small scale digging project in bedrock. I'd like to remove the top 3-6ft or so of dolomite from an area of about 50' x 150'. The area currently has the bare bedrock exposed on the surface, and the bedrock extends downward at least 90'. In the local area around the site, there tends to be quite a lot of flat flakes of this rock between 1" - 5" thick (and surface areas ranging from a loaf of bread to a kitchen table), just lying loose, I guess cleaved off by freezing water over the generations. So there are probably a fair number of horizontal bedding planes (natural weak layers in the rock) that allow it to separate into sheets like that, although i don't know for sure how deep these bedding planes are found.

My question is; what approach/what kind of machine would be best to do this job?
The only approach i've ruled out is blasting, since i assume it would not be cost effective for such a small project.

Approaches i've been thinking most about are:
1) an excavator (probably a larger one), to just smash and dig
2) a single ripper tooth to replace the bucket on a backhoe (i have a 9000#/65hp ditch witch backhoe)
3) a hydraulic breaker mounted on the backhoe to break it up
4) a vertical rail-mounted hydraulic drill on the backhoe, to use in a quarrying approach with hydraulic splitters or feather and wedges. That way maybe i could get some usable building stone out of the project.

I'd like to do as much of the project as possible myself, to save on cost and ... just 'cuz. But i'm not ruling out hiring somebody, if its just not feasible to do myself. I also have a small dump truck to transport the excavated rock out of the site.
I'd be interested in hearing ideas.
Thanks

 

[Nige]

Unless you have the material mistaken the words dolomite and building stone don't belong in the same sentence. It's far too soft and tends to fall apart very rapidly, as you point out from the weathering of the surface due to rain & frost that you can see.

 

[old grayfellow]

Unless you have the material mistaken the words dolomite and building stone don't belong in the same sentence. It's far too soft and tends to fall apart very rapidly, as you point out from the weathering of the surface due to rain & frost that you can see.

There's reason to believe that the partial weathering/bedding plane separations might go down into the rock at least a few feet, possibly as deep or deeper than i want to dig.
That would make the removal easier. Yeah i agree it might make the rock questionable or maybe no good for pure dimension stone, but maybe still usable for random-thickness building stone, or if i took it off in random flakes it could still be used as stone veneer or for landscaping.
Getting these kind of uses out of the rock is not the main priority for the project (most stone from around the area gets made into gravel for roadbuilding), but it would be nice if i could get some use or some $ out of the excavated rock, instead of turning it into a bunch of rubble that i have to get rid of. But the main objective is to do the excavation in the first place.

 

[Steve Frazier]

Please do not post identical threads in multiple forums, it makes things confusing to the Board. I've closed the other threads. Thanks.

 

[Delmer]

Whether or not it's technically dolomite, lots of the limestone in WI is fine for building or aggregate. Compare what you have to what you find in old buildings and draw your own conclusions.

Sounds like a job for big dozer w/ripper. But I'd take a bar to it and see how easy it prys up by hand, the ditch witch might handle it fine with a "frost tooth".

 

[td25c]

Sounds like limestone old grayfellow. Like Delmer said big dozer with ripper works good or in a small area like 50' buy 150' I might use a 20 ton excavator to peel off the layers of stone. Either one would work fine.We have alot of limestone in our area as well.Have to remove the dirt off the top then find the seam in the stone & peel it up.The deeper ya go the thicker the stone gets between the seams.Interesting to myself the seams in the limestone all run about dead level in my area so I assume it was put there buy water over time.Now if it's Dolomite...........Better call this guy ( old 1970's film)LOL www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolemite Good luck with the project old greyfellow.

 

[EZ TRBO]

I wouldn't rule out drilling and blasting yet. About the time you go down 2 feet and hit a solid layer you might be to late to switch tactics. PM me as to where in WI your at...an estimate or quote from a blasting contractor shouldn't cost you anything. Then you will know for sure.

Trbo

 

[old grayfellow]

Whether or not it's technically dolomite, lots of the limestone in WI is fine for building or aggregate. Compare what you have to what you find in old buildings and draw your own conclusions.

The site is in NE WI, north of Green Bay. They used flakes of this rock a lot for foundations in the old farmhouses, and the occasional house was built out of it entirely (though most used wood due to cheaper cost and easy availability).

Sounds like a job for big dozer w/ripper. But I'd take a bar to it and see how easy it prys up by hand, the ditch witch might handle it fine with a "frost tooth".

It does pry up easily by hand, at least at or near the surface, but i'm not sure what happens further down. Only one way to know for sure, but I don't get to spend as much time as i'd like up in the area these days. Trying to get the approaches narrowed down so when i do get up there, i can be as efficient as possible.

The site i'm talking about is in NE Wisconsin, about 50mi N of Green Bay.
If i remember right, the rock in the locale is associated with the "Niagara escarpment" and is "lower magnesian limestone", a type of dolomite.
There are several active quarries in the local area, same rock bed. I talked to a guy from one of them (not asking about blasting, but more about the character of the rock). He said there are 2 kinds of stone he ran into—a grayish/bluish type that is quite hard and solid, and a whiter (or possibly buff?) kind that is easier to break. I asked him about bedding planes and ease of breaking; He said that the rock (at least the whiter kind) was fairly easy to break, down to 10’-16’ or so. Below that it was harder. After explaining the scale and depth of what I wanted to do, his best recommendation was to try a big backhoe or an excavator to just smash at it with the bucket and dig it out that way.

 

[old grayfellow]

Sounds like limestone old grayfellow. Like Delmer said big dozer with ripper works good or in a small area like 50' buy 150' I might use a 20 ton excavator to peel off the layers of stone. Either one would work fine.We have alot of limestone in our area as well.Have to remove the dirt off the top then find the seam in the stone & peel it up.The deeper ya go the thicker the stone gets between the seams.Interesting to myself the seams in the limestone all run about dead level in my area so I assume it was put there buy water over time.Now if it's Dolomite...........Better call this guy ( old 1970's film)LOL www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolemite Good luck with the project old greyfellow.

Hi TD
Thanks for the suggestions. I did talk to a local quarry guy and he agreed with your opinion about the excavator. What area of Indiana are you in?
I used to do weekend cave exploring down around Bloomington. Lots of nice limestone down there, and a fun way of getting to know it from the bottom up.
Thanks for the link too. I'll have to look into their "methods"..

 

[td25c]

The excavator would be my first choice for a project that size.I have a 30" rough service bucket that works good for picking in limestone & getting between the seams. Thats cool you cave explored in Bloomington and hell yes they have limestone Some of the best in the country www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_limestone I'm about 60 miles south of bloomington and in areas the limestone is still prevalent on jobsites. I just got back from talking to a customer about digging a basement ......He wanted a hard figure estimate on the job & I said we would need to dig some test holes with a small back hoe first to see whats down there