Figuring out what the customer wants?

[DKinWA]

I seem to be running into this a lot lately and wonder how others handle this. I've looked at several projects (house foundation excavations, driveways, etc) where the customer doesn't really know what they're doing.

For instance, someone wants me to dig the foundation, but they don't know how deep. Then I ask the width and length and they say it's about "Y" x "Z", but they aren't positive. Then I ask about the footing and stem wall height and they give me the "deer in headlight" look. So I then get the brilliant idea to ask the customer if I may see the house plans and usually find out they aren't done yet. It seems like the more questions I ask, the more blank stares I get.

I've been bidding some of these projects and assuming the worst case (maximum work) and then adding a fudge factor. Would you do the same or do something different. When I've asked the customer to get some additional information, they usually say "just go ahead and figure it out at 24" deep or ??" and then I'm stuck again :beatsme

 

[Steve Frazier]

I run into similar customers on occasion but I don't do foundation work at all. I just tell these people they aren't prepared for me yet and when they have a plan in place to give me a call. I think you'd risk your reputation if you gave any bid at all, they may not be giving the same specs to your competitor.

 

[digger242j]

I was going to post a new thread on a similar topic, so I'm glad this came up. Actually, after typing it all out, I've decided not to hijack this thread with *my* problem. I'll put it in a different thread.

What it sounds like you're dealing with is a group of customers who are looking to "the excavator" to *tell* them what they want. They don't have the expertise, so they're hoping that you'll figure it out for them as part of your bidding process. I'm not sure I agree with Steve that you're risking your reputation that way. On the contrary, I think it's a way to build a reputation as someone who'll really help the customer out in getting their project done. It does put you in a difficult spot as far as bidding goes though.

I've ended up doing a lot of work on an hourly basis because of this sort of thing. (That's probably also a big factor in the fact that I'll never get rich in this business...)

 

[mert0714]

That is kind of a tough one. We run into it quite a bit and we spend a lot of time explaining and then they want us to sort of itemize the bid (prices for the different options). Then they can go from there or they are calling for more ideas or options.

On one hand you can explain a lot of options for them, give them the sales talk and give them a worst case bid. Then you can explain to them it can be adjusted according to the difficulty or quantity of work that actually is done and you will treat them right. Then go with that and maybe have to re-bid when the real plan with real solid ideas comes.

On the other hand, you could go like Steve said and wait till the plans come and maybe make a verbal ballpark idea of a price to the customer so they may have an idea. Then get your bid figured out and in writing after the palns come in. May save you some time early or may create more work for you later

It depends on the trust factor of the customer. Maybe they will go off of your worst case verbal bid and then say "You have the job, just give me the real bid when the I get you the plan". If you do a good sales job, you may not have to bid at all (other than verbal).

Our work sells itself and some of the time the customers/repeat customers don't care about a bid they just want a ballpark idea for budget purposes and then they get what they want when they decide to do it. They get treated right and we don't lose either. If they feel they were not cheated the word spreads, although not as fast as if you screw them. Feel out the customer and see what works the best for you. Maybe you cannot get by with this in your area. Something needs to be in writing no matter what though, write down the verbal bid and some important thing discussed at your meeting. In case you miss judge someone and court papers appear, you need to have your butt covered. Depends on how much you run into that problem. Good luck.

 

[Steve Frazier]

I should probably explain my reply a bit further. My area has seen a building explosion that has lasted the past 3 years, many people have made an exodus from NYC following 9/11 and have landed here. I'm typically booked out 2 and 3 months for work.

I've been to places where the homeowner doesn't have a set plan and starts rattling off ideas. By looking judging the surroundings, I can sometimes sense that a budget may not provide for 1/2 the ideas that have been recited and have to ask about the budget limitations. I've also had cases where I've visited a location 3 and 4 times for revisions, lost the bid, and then returned to find the final job was not anywhere near what we had been talking about. By this time I'd had 8 hours invested in consulting and bidding work.

The contractor who did the job apparently gave a lower bid for lesser work and this customer now feels I'm overpriced. If i wasn't booked so far out, I might be a bit more patient for this type of job, but my experience has been I pretty much end up wasting my time.

 

[mert0714]

There is not that much time anyway. You surely hate to waste any at all. It is too bad that nationwide and several different industries don't get smart and charge a bid fee and then put it towards the job if you get it. It sure would eliminate the price shoppers and quantity of competitive bids. Hopefully your work would speak for itself and get you the jobs. At least this way you could get a little for your time and gas money. It might also make people do more research or think a little more about what they qant before wasting your time. :beatsme

 

[DKinWA]

I sure wish I was booked 2 or 3 months out right now:notworthy We're just now starting to get enough short dry spells that we can actually do some dirt work.

When I meet with perspective customers I'm pretty good at giving a sales pitch. As soon as I figure out they don't know exactly what the want, I usually change my sales pitch approach. Instead of trying to nail down the work and the price, I try to start a dialog about what they want for a final product. It usually gets pretty time consuming, but I'm usually able to give ball park numbers and it gives them options to choose from. At that point, I'm trying to sell my willingness to work with them and around their budget. For some reason, it seems like folks start to focus on the project and less on the cost. I don't know if it's really true, or maybe they just get comfortable with me and realize I'm not out to screw them.

I remember one time I got to BS'ing with one customer and we started talking about equipment. Once he realized the equipment I'd be using was going to cost more than his new house, he understood my estimate

 

[triaxle]

Don't cook without a recipe and don't bid without plans or you open the door to all the annoying scenarios discussed in the section about customers who don't have a clue.

The plans are a great tool for keeping everyone bidding the same job and reduce the possibility that unrealistic expectations will creep into the mix.

 

[salesrep]

Though not in the esc bus. I was in the general cont. bus for several years and sales forever. My .02
I agree with the previous post don't bid. Go over all the possible scenarios with the potential customer and explain the pros and cons from an end result of what they may be looking for. Be very general and wide with pricing explaining ( depending on the quality, depth,timing,extensiveness etc.)
Tactfully muddy the waters if you will. This will position you as the expert and help to educate him on to what He really wants done. Politely find out when he will have a definitve time frame and/or definitve "plan" at which time you will call him back. Send him a "thank you for your time card" and state you will call him in the time frame discussed and then do so.
If he liked you and trusts you he will respect your professionalism and "wait" to get your final opinion and bid. If not he was playing you and you'll not waste unnecessary time.

 

[CascadeScaper]

It's the same way for us as landscapers, the customer never wants to make a decision though. We do CADD designs and such but most of the time the customer just can't decide what they want, regardless if we put it on paper or not. We try to design around what they want, rather than just tell them what it's going to look like and exclude them from the process entirely, but some days I just wish we could just put in what needs to be done and not ask them. We're bidding a job for a deck, kind of a side job for us, we have a sub that's going to build the deck instead of us, but the dimensions of the deck directly affect the landscape that we are installing. Well it's the 5th time the customer has changed their mind about what they want the deck to look like and it's delayed the project about a week or so. Very frustrating.

 

[triaxle]

Kangaroo

When the British first visited Australia, they met aboriginese ( native australians).
One day as they were exploring the Australian countryside they saw a herd of hopping animals, and asked the aboriginese "what is that?"
The reply was "Kangaroo."

It was later that the British discovered that kangaroo means "I don't understand" in aboriginese.

Many customers without plans or a clue remind me of this story.