Greases?

[salesrep]

Just try'n to get something going. Who knows what different types of thickening agents are typically used in greases and their imporatance? Why is reversability in greases important?

 

[will_gurt]

I am not to sure what thickening agents are in them ,but wouldn't the agent tend to hold the grease in there instead of the lubricant running off?

 

[salesrep]

Basically yes. Sometimes referred to as thickeners.
Think of grease like a sponge. The thickener is the sponge ( good grease 8-12 percent thickener the balance oil and additives. The lubricants (oil) then seeps out of the sponge and does its job.
Reversability is the ability of the sponge to reabsorb the oils at cooling and use them another day. so to speak.

How bout types of thickeners?

 

[nobull1]

Just try'n to get something going. Who knows what different types of thickening agents are typically used in greases and their imporatance? Why is reversability in greases important?

Ok I will start something here. I use aluminum complex in my excavator , truck, tractor etc. The reversability of the a/c which is the ability to go back to previous state after being heated is excellant with a/c. The only real isssue I have with it is moly. The reason being is I have heard of people having problems with needle/ball bearings and moly. 95% of my greasing is with bushings so moly would be fine and probably a asset.It's the other 5%[turning circle etc] that I think could cause a problem. So for that reason I don't use moly. My questions would be is moly save for all applications and at what percent. Please explain the pros and cons of the different moly percentages if you would. I realize this might ask a bit more from you than just on what you sell but looking for opinions.

 

[salesrep]

"The reversability of the a/c which is the ability to go back to previous state after being heated "
Well Said.


Aluminum complex base should not be confused with moly. Moly is an additive with tremendous multiple advantages in oil and greases. I really doubt that the moly that is causing problems but something else within that particular grease.

Aluminum compex grease is waterproof and think the best all-around grease thickener period. Great compatibility, great reversibilty and again waterproof.
Most greases tend to be lithuim or lithium complex base.

Back to Moly. Many have only a small % of moly. Some think 3% is optimum which is what I generally recommend. The 5% moly was due to Cat specs a few years back and some feel that this much is overkill.

Another advantage to Moly in this industry is that it is negatively charged as is dirt. Water and dirt/dust are huge enemies to your equipment.

 

[nobull1]

"The reversability of the a/c which is the ability to go back to previous state after being heated "
Well Said.


Aluminum complex base should not be confused with moly. Moly is an additive with tremendous multiple advantages in oil and greases. I really doubt that the moly that is causing problems but something else within that particular grease..

I guess I didn't write what I thought again. I realize that moly is a additive that can be added to the different greases. The problems I have heard of are not to just one type of grease but any/all that are using a moly additive in a needle/ballbearing application. I fully agree that the properties of a/c make this a superior product in a lot of heavy equipment applications. The washout is excellant as I can verify to as I have greased and used my bucket in just about pure water with little washout. Also in the summer in extreme heat when the grease can melt I have also found great reversability. I have used some greases that would melt and run away as opposed to the a/c's that I have used. "In my opinion" a/c is the best I have found but have a little trouble with moly in certain applications. Not trying to be arguementative just voicing my concerns.

 

[salesrep]

Your description and explaination of the aluminum complex grease is right on no bull. :notworthy

back to the moly. What is the specific application of these bearings? and what is happening that is creating failure?

 

[nobull1]

back to the moly. What is the specific application of these bearings? and what is happening that is creating failure?

Salesrep
There is no specific applications, I was just making a general comment about moly use in non friction bearings.So likewise I have not had a failure, "possibly" due to not using moly as a additive.
Now to explain my previous paragraph. I decided to use a/c a couple of years ago after doing much research on the greases available. One of the things that I found was a few companies were saying moly for friction bearings only. This also is the thinking of a few people on different forums as well. Why this is/was is beyond my abilities to figure out. So for the safety of my equipment IMO I decided to use a/c without moly. If I truly wanted the best I would use both greases[one for friction one for non] but for simplicity I just use non moly. I realize Schaeffers a/c moly is rated for all bearing and do not doubt that claim. I guess what I am asking is,is moly really needed and what benefits are there from using it on non friction bearings.

 

[salesrep]

Moly has many attributes the primary one being friction reduction ( the slickest material maother nature makes and the second hardest). Once it plates up it stays there and withstands up to 500,000 psi. Moly is also negatively charged as is dirt, a plus. It also enhances the other additves and works as an anti-oxidant. Is it necessary, of course, not.
As with all oils and greases many factors contribute. i think an a/c base is the best start in this arena.
No bull you da man. what subject do we broach next.

 

[nobull1]

i think an a/c base is the best start in this arena.
what subject do we broach next.

I agree a/c appears to be the best for most if not all applications pertaining to this site. Myself I have never used Schaeffers but have heard nothing but good from people who have. If there were a local dealer, selling for a fair price I would probably try it for some applications. I would like nothing better than to do some real world testing and to be able to post updates. The problem being, what I have works fine and I don't want to spend twice as much to prove Schaeffers is equal or possibly a better product. I think just by using a/c you are 90- 110%, with the MFG and moly being the variable.
If you want to talk motor oils just start a new thread and we can debate conventional,hydro-cracked and full synthetic. I have my own opinions on these and reasons for them. The quality of the greases and fluids IMO are one of the most important things that you can do to help your equipment last.

 

[salesrep]

The quality of the greases and fluids IMO are one of the most important things that you can do to help your equipment last.

Of course I couldn't agree more. Equipment longevity, less downtime, better performance, resalability, all come into play using high quality lubes.

 

[salesrep]

What about nlgi #1 in the winter? Do y'all switch for pumpability?

 

[nobull1]

I don't switch for a couple of reason
1] Generally 3-4 times the washout rate for 1 over 2
2] simplicity one grease does all
3] don't usually do a lot of work when real cold
Now if I had a auto pump on any machines I most likely would switch. For people that work a lot in the winter or have auto pumps IMO should use #1

Salesrep
What is your opinion on switching from #2-#1 in winter?

 

[salesrep]

A lot of guys will switch to #1 in the winter if their grease is stored outside or used on the site in colder temps. I'm not sure that water washout is that dramatic. I would suggest using a different color and a more synthetic grease if you are going to go to #1 in the colder months.

 

[dirtyboy]

2 cents

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the use of a/c grease.
It is not compatible with most other greases.
The only grease it is totally compatible with is Calcium 12OH greases and borderline with Lithium Complex. If you like the a/c grease stick with it, but don't mix it.

 

[salesrep]

Aluminum complex grease is compatible with all of the following.

Barium
Calcium
calcium 12 hydroxy
calcium complex
lithium 12 hydroxy
lithium complex ( by far the most common)
lithium
polyurea

this covers just about all greases with the exception of clay based (very rare)

 

[dirtyboy]

Salesrep,
Are your sure your not backwards on your last post? All compatibility charts I have looked at are opposite of what your post stated.:beatsme

 

[salesrep]

I am 100% certain of the compatability of ac grease stated.

 

[dirtyboy]

Where are you getting your information? All of the compatibility charts I have found indicate the opposite is true.
For the purposes of changing products, the compatibility of greases in question should be determined by laboratory testing. Fluid separation is the first sign of incompatibility.
My charts show that a/c grease is incompatible with the following Thickeners.

Barium
Bentone/Clay
Calcium
Calcium Complex
Lithium
Lithium 12OH
Lithium Complex - Borderline
Polyurea
Sodium