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new member with a d4d from the 60s direct drive with toolbar

CaptainB

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2024
Messages
7
Location
Laredo, Texas
I would like to find all the manuals and diagrams maintenence guides etc possible for my machine but I have always been able to find CATERPILLAR LUBRICATION AND MAINTENANCE INSTRUCTIONS and OPERATOR'S MANUAL (FORMS FE045116-02 and FE045069-01) from jensales.com.

This is my machine photo_2024-03-15_17-59-10.jpg


I havent found any docs for the transmission its a: 4K6037 the serial number of the machine is: 78A1594 series D

I tried the acmoc site but I find its just rich people collecting vintage machine and paying others to fix them and I want to learn how to fix it myself

Thanks

J.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,718
Location
Canada
Your tracks look a little too tight but the bigger issue is the hoses for the lift cylinder(s). They're just asking to get ripped off in the 1st 2 seconds you're near a tree. They also look very close to being ripped off by the tracks. Was your dozer originally an AG dozer and someone adapted a blade to it? You need to make some very necessary improvements to the design so you're not constantly fixing it.
 
Last edited:

Costnsg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2023
Messages
63
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
Retired
I bought a 1977 D5B a few months ago and was able to find all the manuals and parts books on Ebay. In the process I learned that the parts manual only covers the tractor. There is a separate parts book for the hydraulic system and the blade. Now I'm learning how to find parts that Cat not longer carries. I'm sure you will run into that with your machine.
 

OzDozer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
2,207
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
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Semi-Retired ..
Dave, that hose setup is standard Cat design for the Cat blades of that era. They certainly are an exposed design.

CaptainB, your D4D was almost the last D4D built in 1963. 1963 production of 78A series D4D's ran from 78A0001 to 78A1597.

Look on eBay for good used original manuals. The Service Manual is a heavy-plastic cover large book, and the covers says "Serial Numbers 78A1-up".
This service manual covers the schematics of operation, disassembly, reassembly and repair of the tractor.


The Operation and Maintenance manual is a separate book again - but sometimes it is included in the Service Manual. I can't find any on eBay at present.

The toolbar blade has its own Installation and Operation instructions - as does the hydraulic system, as Costnsg says.

 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
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Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,718
Location
Canada
I wouldn't think it would be too hard to reroute the hoses and make some protection for them. Maybe have them come down the side of the machine inside the tracks and then go under the top of the track. Might work to put them inside a larger steel pipe that could be bolted or tacked on.
 

OzDozer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
2,207
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
Occupation
Semi-Retired ..
The hoses that are installed are not original, they're too long and very untidy. The original hoses simply curve in an arc over the track.

You could re-route them, but it's a lot of work to do so, and somewhere, there still has to be a pair of flexible hoses crossing from tractor chassis to track frame.
 

skyking1

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2020
Messages
7,779
Location
washington
yes my preference would be not having them jump that gap. Needs to be hose to allow track oscillation, and I have had more oddball crap and limbs and roots rake through that space. Rather have it where I can see it.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,718
Location
Canada
Looking at it again I think you could run the hoses to the front of the machine and then make a loop and come back on the C frame to the cylinders. Maybe along the side of the hood. The loop would be behind the blade and the hoses could be clamped and/or protected on the push arms of the C frame. They're way too vulnerable the way they are even with the correct length of hoses. It's odd the cab has protection screens but the hoses stick out like a sore thumb.
 

OzDozer

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Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
2,207
Location
Perth, Western Australia.
Occupation
Semi-Retired ..
I've never had a tractor yet where the hoses between tractor chassis and blade, or track frame, weren't damaged in some way.

Possibly the best setup was the tilt ram hoses that ran from track frame to blade on my D7F's, they were well protected with guards - but even then they had to be replaced on regular occasions.

The track oscillation area or the blade movement area is where the weakness is, as regards hose damage.
While the original toolbar hose design is not ideal, it's highly visible, and the damage level is up to the operator.
 

CaptainB

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2024
Messages
7
Location
Laredo, Texas
Well for the hoses I just fasten them to the cabin using hay bale twine for the moment, but I am worried about the tracks being too tight and now I have to adjust the steering clutches because the machine is not steering at all it seems like the steering levers are not engaging fully, Ill post more photos tomorrow

Thanks
 

CaptainB

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2024
Messages
7
Location
Laredo, Texas
I just logged on my phone here are the r photos I have a problem with the recoil spring bolt on the right side I don’t know what to do with it and I don’t want to adjust the tracks with that center bolt unfastened or too lose or too tight

 

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OzDozer

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CaptainB - The center bolt is there to hold the recoil spring at the correct length when the spring is being installed. It's backed off, and the nut secured with a lock, once the spring is installed. The bolt also ensures the spring doesn't pop out of its seat at the rear.

Cat give a dimension for the new spring and new bolt for installation. In the factory, the spring would be compressed in a press, and the center bolt tightened to set the spring installation length.

The center bolt is also used to remove the recoil spring. The track is compressed using a pin sat in the top teeth of the sprocket, while the tractor is reversed. This compresses the recoil spring off its stops.

The nut on the center bolt is then tightened up snug to hold the spring compressed, the stops are unbolted, and the track adjuster removed, and the recoil spring can then be lifted out.
From there, the compressed recoil spring is installed in a press with specific adaptors to hold it, and pressure applied so the nut on the center bolt can be fully unscrewed. The pressure in the press is then relieved until the spring is fully extended and relaxed.

With a broken center bolt, you have a dilemma in that;

A. It needs to be replaced. Working with the bolt missing, there's a real risk the spring may dislodge at the rear, under adverse conditions. There's a thick pilot tube inside the spring at the rear that helps hold and guide the center bolt.
B. There are no new center bolts available, so you'll need to have one fabricated from high tensile steel.
C. It's quite unlikely any shop will fabricate a center bolt for you, as they won't want to wear the risk of a liability claim if it fails sometime, and someone gets injured (or even killed - those springs are very dangerous if they're let loose).

I've seen other owners advise the solution is to purchase a whole new recoil spring and bolt assembly.

Either way, you're looking at recoil spring removal, and this requires the spring to be compressed.
Without a center bolt, you will have to devise a safe way of compressing the recoil spring for removal.
Many people simply prefer to cut the spring in several places to remove the compression tension.

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT COMPRESSED RECOIL SPRING REMOVAL WITH A BROKEN CENTER BOLT, ON YOUR OWN, WITHOUT PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, AND PROFESSIONAL TOOLING.

The pressure in compressed recoil springs is multiple tons, and they need to be handled with great care and thought, in steps being taken, until the spring pressure is relieved.

The track tension is important - too tight a track, and track wear increases substantially. The same goes for too loose a track. Ideally, a sag of around 1" to 1.5" between idler and carrier roller is the recommended slack for the track.
 

CaptainB

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2024
Messages
7
Location
Laredo, Texas
CaptainB - The center bolt is there to hold the recoil spring at the correct length when the spring is being installed. It's backed off, and the nut secured with a lock, once the spring is installed. The bolt also ensures the spring doesn't pop out of its seat at the rear.

Cat give a dimension for the new spring and new bolt for installation. In the factory, the spring would be compressed in a press, and the center bolt tightened to set the spring installation length.

The center bolt is also used to remove the recoil spring. The track is compressed using a pin sat in the top teeth of the sprocket, while the tractor is reversed. This compresses the recoil spring off its stops.

The nut on the center bolt is then tightened up snug to hold the spring compressed, the stops are unbolted, and the track adjuster removed, and the recoil spring can then be lifted out.
From there, the compressed recoil spring is installed in a press with specific adaptors to hold it, and pressure applied so the nut on the center bolt can be fully unscrewed. The pressure in the press is then relieved until the spring is fully extended and relaxed.

With a broken center bolt, you have a dilemma in that;

A. It needs to be replaced. Working with the bolt missing, there's a real risk the spring may dislodge at the rear, under adverse conditions. There's a thick pilot tube inside the spring at the rear that helps hold and guide the center bolt.
B. There are no new center bolts available, so you'll need to have one fabricated from high tensile steel.
C. It's quite unlikely any shop will fabricate a center bolt for you, as they won't want to wear the risk of a liability claim if it fails sometime, and someone gets injured (or even killed - those springs are very dangerous if they're let loose).

I've seen other owners advise the solution is to purchase a whole new recoil spring and bolt assembly.

Either way, you're looking at recoil spring removal, and this requires the spring to be compressed.
Without a center bolt, you will have to devise a safe way of compressing the recoil spring for removal.
Many people simply prefer to cut the spring in several places to remove the compression tension.

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, ATTEMPT COMPRESSED RECOIL SPRING REMOVAL WITH A BROKEN CENTER BOLT, ON YOUR OWN, WITHOUT PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, AND PROFESSIONAL TOOLING.

The pressure in compressed recoil springs is multiple tons, and they need to be handled with great care and thought, in steps being taken, until the spring pressure is relieved.

The track tension is important - too tight a track, and track wear increases substantially. The same goes for too loose a track. Ideally, a sag of around 1" to 1.5" between idler and carrier roller is the recommended slack for the track.


Hi, yeah its not broken fortunatley as I had thought at first, I took the bolt to a shop to get the threads done and I bought a new big nut, the bolt fastens into the other side where there is the another sort of "nut cylinder" that also works with the mechanism to losen or tigthen the tracks. So I just fastened it back in place but I didnt know what to do with the big nut but I discovered that it didnt matter if I snuged the bolt with my impact gun (its a dewalt 1/2 inch cordless) because the machine is old and under the new yellow paint I bet there is some old rust that is holding everything in place.

So I will just put the center bolt back in place and back off the nut, then I will proceed with the track as per the instructions in the manual slowly, I am assuming that with the center bolt in place everything wlil be ok, I wlil let you know hwat happened thanks for the advice!
 

TomA

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Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Messages
145
Location
Mariposa, CA
I don't think that nut should be backed off at all. It is there to hold spring tension to a certain specified length. At this point I believe the tracks are being tensioned by the springs. You need to have the bolt and nut holding tension. Then maybe you can back off on the adjustment.
 

Old Magnet

Senior Member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
2,014
Location
Corralitos, California
Oz is correct, the track bolt only comes into play during removal and installation of the recoil spring.
With the spring in place the big retainer nut is backed off and the bolt just provides a safety feature to confine the spring.
 

CaptainB

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2024
Messages
7
Location
Laredo, Texas
Hey hello again, so I loosened up both tracks and gave the dozer a test run mostly im teaching myself how to operate the machine its a direct drive so there are 6 levers to keep an eye on at all times while running the machine. So you were 100% correct about the hydraulic hoses one of them got ripped off today. On the postiive side this made me realize there is water in the hydraulic system because the color of the liquid looks like milkshake, im not good with colors but i think its not pink milkshake but still.

So I will just take the hose to the hydraulics shop in my nearest city to get the hose fitting attached again but what should I do about the milkshake fluid? Im assuming this is not normal, here is a video:


So im thinking what would work is to just start the dozer and pull the hydralucis lever a couple times till no more fluid comes out then refill with hydraulic oil, fix the hose, reinstall the hose and hope that there is no more water left inside the system but I am thinking its not as simple as that.

What should I do?
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,718
Location
Canada
You have to be very careful running the machine to drain the hyd. oil. Hyd. pumps don't like air or being run dry. Better to remove drain plugs and/or hoses to get the bad fluid out. Might take a few times to get all the bad fluid out.
 

John Shipp

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
647
Location
England
Occupation
forestry contracting
CaptainB what Dave just said, the safer way is to drain the hydraulic reservoir, fill with clean new oil and then if you want to purge pipework you can run system for very short periods BUT never run tank dry while doing this - when I've done it there's been two of us and a 50 gallon drum with a 2" spout hanging over the open tank, the key turner/lever puller in the seat needs to watch the oil barrel/hose purging technician and shut machine down promptly when instructed (as each hose purges/before tank is empty). It takes barely a few seconds on some machines to pump the tank empty. Purging systems uses a lot of oil :)
 
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