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oil analysis decoding

poulson01

Active Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
29
Location
North East USA
I'm not sure which forum to post this question but can someone point me to a resource for the basics of how to read an oil analysis report? my boss showed me some reports that he is concerned about. I think he may be worried about nothing but I need to be able to decode the report so I'm not talking out of my ass.
 

Wulf

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
584
Location
Canada
Personally I'm a bit skeptical about the value of oil sampling on mobile equipment due to the number of variables and inconsistencies when samples are taken. People here may know how to read a sample so maybe post your concerns here and I'll also comment if I have anything to offer!

The sampling lab would probably be happy to discuss the sample over the phone or your equipment supplier could likely do this too.

For self study there are some good resources here:

http://www.noria.com/

http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com/
 

pushcat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
162
Location
USA
When we recieve our analysis back from Cat, we don't need to decode it. It tells you straight up how many ppm of whatever foreign matter is it, like iron, aluminum, copper, sulfer(diesel fuel), or silica(dirt). It also tells you if it is in an acceptable range like normal wear or unacceptable and what the possible causes are.
 

salesrep

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
204
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Sales Rep
you are are looking for trends.
!st check the wear metals. particularly lead and iron.
soot level?
Did the oil's viscosity hold up?
how bout the additive package and tbn?
Trends is key. high iron 100-200 ppm is bad.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,870
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
Pushcat has it right. The lab will tell when there is a potential for a problem.

But even more than that there should be and explanation of the back of the report telling what each symbol means and what is good and bad. The other people to talk to are your oil suppliers. They have published materials that also explain them.

Wulf also has it right on as far as I'm concerned. I have only recommended oil sampling when the component is not as old as the warranty. It usually stops all the crap about operator abuse and bad maintenance that dealers might toss your way. I also will start a program on very old machines trying to jump a costly major failure. An example might be if I end up with a 10,000 dozer I'll change all the oils before putting the machine to work and then run samples for a 1,000 hours to get a feel for what is left.

Generally speaking major problems seem to show up in the first 1,000 hours on a new machine. After that most machines will generally run 7,000 to 10,000 no problem with good maintenance.
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
There is no substitute for machinery component oil analysis on a timely and constant basis. None! If you only sample infrequently or for a limited period of time, you have to accept the risk that you will miss a major and costly failure.

As salesrep explains, you are mainly looking for trends in the amount of different wear metals, but also silicon (dirt), water (including glycol), fuel, and additive package minerals or chemicals. Wear metals go up with increased time on oil, additives come down with depletion. Too much fuel, glycol, water, and silicon is bad. You must have several oil sample reports to start a trend and see where your oil is going and what's happening to it in your machine. For instance, I can tell, with a decent sample trend, if a particular brand of oil has been switched for another.

You can compare similar machine oil samples in your own fleet, or those of similar machines in other folks fleets. This helps you see what all machines of that type or manufacturer are doing and whether yours is outside the norm. Be careful however, results can vary wildly for a number of reasons.

However, and an important point missed by many people, is you are trying to see a potential catastrophic event before it happens. There may be other physical indications that such an event is about to happen, but a fluid sample will likely alert you in time to make it a minor repairable situation, instead of a major issue causing a job shut down and potential loss of work for many people.

Remember too, that the limits manufacturers people post are averages for a wide range of machines in a huge number of situations. Your own results need to be studied carefully to see how the units are acting in your operations. You may have certain unique situations that your machines have to cope with that may increase or decrease readings.

Generally speaking, you want metals to be as low as possible, but even new oils have some, so a new oil sample is a must so that you have a baseline to start with. Silicon levels more than 10 are bad, indicating that you have dirt coming into the compartment. However, some hydraulic oils have silicon as an additive to help prevent foaming, a base sample will identify that. Water and glycol are always no-no's. Nearly any amount is bad. Fuel in any amount is bad though there is nearly always a trace. Total base number is important as it tells you, in part, how your additive package is doing, not all oils show as high as the producer claims they will. The numbers for some of the additive ingredients will tell the rest of the story. Older components tend to use up additives faster than new. There is much more that I do not have time to list.

Wulf listed excellent reading material. Some of the stuff presented in the two examples is for real egg-heads, but they also have fairly readable and understandable articles that point out much valuable information for the construction machinery end-user. He is also correct that most lab reps will love to present you with more information than you can digest at one or more sittings. You can also get excellent analysis information from most equipment dealerships if you press hard enough.

Oil analysis will save you money in the long run if you stick to it faithfully. It only takes one or two severe failures to pay for a year or more analysis.

Good Luck!
 

poulson01

Active Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
29
Location
North East USA
Thanks for the replies. The Samples are not in front of me but I took a good look at them. They were through Cat. I'll tell you what I think I know. High ppm iron would come from wearing iron parts like oil pump or cylinder walls. Chrome would come from rings or wrist pins etc. Silicon would come from dirt. Aluminum, Copper, Tin would be coming from main and rod bearings. I read some links yesterday that you guys recommended and saw that some of the other stuff is from oil additives. Knowing what I know, the only number that jumped out at me was the swing motor oil iron. It was really high, like 1500 ppm or something! It took me a couple seconds to remember that there is a brake in there that could be making a lot of metal. This machine hasn't had it's 1000hr service as far as I know and has about 1200hrs on it. It's just broke in. The iron was in the 200 to 500ppm range for the track motors. The engine had no trace of iron. There was no warnings or flags on any of the reports. I don't know how the samples were taken. (When I was an airdale, We took samples of all the fluids and there was strict procedures). I told the boss on Friday, not to over react. I couldn't go into the rational because I don't want to throw anyone under the buss. But I agree with Wulf, even though I'm not the expert. I think that as long as the machine is maintained properly, Oil analysis won't prevent a brake down and could mislead and confuse everyone (unless you have a real pro reading the reports). There was a comment made that high silicon meant that the seals were getting tore up. You could take this two ways. First, that the seals are allowing dirt to get into the system or, second, that there is SILICONE from the seals in the oil. I'm not going to pry but you can see where someone could be an idiot here. I'm not confident that anyone in our company is qualified to interpret oil analysis reports. Reading some of the links that you guys posted, I see that there are classes that you can take. (Like two day classes, not two hour classes). Also I read that rule number one is DO NOT panic when you get what you think is a bad report. This tells me that it happens a lot.
My boss didn't seem thrilled that I was second guessing the mechanic but he DID ask for my opinion. I was the mechanic until I became a good operator and I earned a lot of respect from a lot of people for the work that I did. I'll let you all know what becomes of this, if anything.

Also, I ran this machine on Thursday and it felt great. Still runs like new.

Edit: This is the first oil analysis the company has done AFAIK. I never did it and I'm sure my boss never did before I started. Don't know whose idea it was.
 
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