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Re-grouser tracks on 450-G

nedly05

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,801
Location
Adk. Mtns, NY
Hey guys, the grousers on our 450-G are worn but the rest of the bottom is in good shape. I see these adds for grouser bar that you can weld on, and that seems like a good economical solution, and a good winter project. Has anyone ever done this, is it a good idea, how costly?
Thanks guys!
 

D6c10K

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
681
Location
Iowa, USA
nedly,
I'm wrestling with the same problem on my D6c which currently has 20" extreme service pads that are worn down to about 1 5/8"

Stopped at the local track shop today to price out options:
* New 22' grousers w/new bolts and nuts (72 grousers) $2848 + tax

* 3/4" x 1 3/8 weld-on grouser bar - (12) 10' bars = $358 + tax
(plus torching and welding supplies)

He was trying to discourage me from doing it (of course he's selling pads) as it's a nasty job that he figures takes about an hour per grouser by the time you trim the old grouser to make them flat and weld all around the new bar. Of course you have to rotate the tracks at each stage unless you're going to pull the chains off or unbolt all the pads.

I would have to work in an unheated shop unless I pull all the pads off...If I did that they'd be much easier to weld and I could stick them in the old oven to pre-heat them. (from what I read pre-heating is worth doing to improve the weld.)

So far I'm thinking if I do weld-ons I'd rather unbolt the grousers. Even if I have to buy a set of nuts and bolts ($383) it's still a lot cheaper than $3000 for new, and with new I still have to unbolt them all.
By this method it would cost about $750 plus welding supplies

So...for about 1/3 the price of new you can do weld-on...with your free labor.

One other consideration I've got is whether it would be worth it to get standard pads instead of the ext. service. No rock to speak of in this area...plenty of mud though.
 

Construct'O

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
928
Location
SW Iowa
Occupation
Dozerwork,tiling plus many more!!!!!!!
If i went with new pads i would get 24" pads that's what i always had on my 6C.

I like and use extreme service pads because they are a lot heavy pads taller grouser and wear great.Will ride rough,but that is because of the taller grousers.The more high in the grouser the better traction,but rougher ride espeically when it get dry and hard.

Wasn't a problem this year,but traction was,MuDDDDDDDDDY !

If you didn't go with taking the pads off to weld the bars on you could preheat the old pad with a torch before you welder the bar on.

Only complaint with the weld on bars are in rock or cement you break a bar off once in awhile.Good luck
 

KevD815

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
88
Location
Connecticut
If you go with the welding route, stop over at the message board on the Miller Welders website. Theres a few guys over there that specialize in welding on heavy equipment. They can give you a good idea on preheat and post heat times and im sure they could recomend an electrode type.
 

nedly05

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,801
Location
Adk. Mtns, NY
nedly,
I'm wrestling with the same problem on my D6c which currently has 20" extreme service pads that are worn down to about 1 5/8"

Stopped at the local track shop today to price out options:
* New 22' grousers w/new bolts and nuts (72 grousers) $2848 + tax

* 3/4" x 1 3/8 weld-on grouser bar - (12) 10' bars = $358 + tax
(plus torching and welding supplies)

He was trying to discourage me from doing it (of course he's selling pads) as it's a nasty job that he figures takes about an hour per grouser by the time you trim the old grouser to make them flat and weld all around the new bar. Of course you have to rotate the tracks at each stage unless you're going to pull the chains off or unbolt all the pads.

I would have to work in an unheated shop unless I pull all the pads off...If I did that they'd be much easier to weld and I could stick them in the old oven to pre-heat them. (from what I read pre-heating is worth doing to improve the weld.)

So far I'm thinking if I do weld-ons I'd rather unbolt the grousers. Even if I have to buy a set of nuts and bolts ($383) it's still a lot cheaper than $3000 for new, and with new I still have to unbolt them all.
By this method it would cost about $750 plus welding supplies

So...for about 1/3 the price of new you can do weld-on...with your free labor.

One other consideration I've got is whether it would be worth it to get standard pads instead of the ext. service. No rock to speak of in this area...plenty of mud though.

Great post D6c10K, you put it right there in black and white, its a major savings over the new pads. I had originally thought if I were to cut the pads off that I might as well bolt new ones on,but now I am not so sure. Iwas thinking of doing the project right on the rail. I also hadnt thought about grinding the grouser down flat to start, wouldnt that pre-heat it enough? seems like would get pretty warm from the grinder, but you would have to weld each one after it was ground... lots to think about!
 

nedly05

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
1,801
Location
Adk. Mtns, NY
If you go with the welding route, stop over at the message board on the Miller Welders website. Theres a few guys over there that specialize in welding on heavy equipment. They can give you a good idea on preheat and post heat times and im sure they could recomend an electrode type.

I will look into that, didnt know there was such a board over there!!!!

We will be in everything from rock to stumps to mud......
 

D6c10K

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
681
Location
Iowa, USA
Nedly,
To cut the grouser flat first I wouldn't grind them, I'd just torch them off using some kind of a guide to make the cut straight. That would definitely preheat them enough, but unless you weld them with the grouser positioned vertically you can't reach all around to weld them.

I'll have to check out that Miller site...the guys over the will know a lot more than me.

Some suppliers give recomendations on welding...here's a few I found.


http://www.alliedcp.com/products/grouser.asp
http://www.dura-tuff.com/
http://www.fordsteel.com/wearalloy_grouser_bar.htm
http://www.borox.com/uk/produkte_04.htm
http://www.4ncorp.com/
 

Deere John

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2006
Messages
178
Location
North Bay, Ontario
Occupation
Professional Forester
I've seen regrousering done two times. Once was on a mine tour and that was impressive. In a mine, regrousering is routine business. They pulled the tractor (an 8L with a ripper) into the shop with the door open and surrounded all four corners with torches and welding cables - and 4 men. The operator stayed in his seat and the tractor idled.

He lifted the tractor from the ground with the blade and ripper, and the four guys went to work. Working at each idler, each would torch flat a pad, fit the grouser, weld it on in the flat position at close to 400 amps with 1/4" rod, and signal the operator to spin the tracks one more pad. As the pads from the front man reached the back fellow in sequence, all the rear guy had to do at the half-way point was weld the other flat side and the two ends, and they were done. I think they told us that a tractor was regrousered in one shift, no problem.

The other was at our forestry operation. The welder was working by himself in late November. The TD-20e was left idling to move the machine, and the welding truck was left idling to keep the welder and his smokes warm between passes. It was painful to watch after seeing the above method, mostly because of the cold. I'm sure that the two engines idled for a week solid for that job - there must have been some top-end deterioration in those engines from constantly idling.

My own JD450 has been redone, but that was before I acquired it. In any event, I wouldn't take the pads off the rails, just work off the sprocket and idler ends so you can weld with lots of amperage in the flat position whenever possible. The pads are easier to cut vertically too, rather than torching horizontally. Wear good leather - there will be a good wee bit of slag on this job.
John
 

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
I've regrousered 2 set of D8 tracks, the first set was 22" extreme service pads, the tracks were off the machine, I hung them with a hoist so they could be welded horizontally. I made 2 jigs that C clapmed to the pad and held the bar straight so you could weld one side. This way I could get 4-5 pads at a time. I did the work myself with a stick welder and 7018 rod. The second set, 24" extreme service, I hired done on the machine. There were 2 guys with big wire welders, one at the front putting on the bar and welding one side and one at the back welding the other side all welding was done horizontally. I bought good bar (Dura Tuff) as it's alot of work so I wanted the best bar available. I never had a bar break off either machine. If your pads are in good shape( not cracking and the trailing edge is good) I say go for it, smaller tractors will be alot less work.
 

D6c10K

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
681
Location
Iowa, USA
If i went with new pads i would get 24" pads that's what i always had on my 6C.

I like and use extreme service pads because they are a lot heavy pads taller grouser and wear great.

Construct'O,
If I buy new I'd definitely go wider, but not sure about 24" for clearance...might get to rubbing the pusharms if I have some slack in the joints.

Didn't know heights were different between Standard and Ext. Service pads...do you know what the new heights are?
 

Swamp rat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
114
Location
La / Ga
Just saw your post about welding up your pads. This is a good option, i have done many and will do it again. The main Question is condition of your rails, if they are good ,weld on a grouser bar and your done. I dont ever preheat, its not needed on this type weld. Cut the pad straight - touch up w/ grinder and start welding. I always blocked the tracks off the ground then weld one halve of the back pad and halve the front then turn track and repeat. I have welded w/ wire feed and also either 7018 or11018,s rods and have not broke anybars off. These dozers have spent many hours pushing in rock and are doing well.
 
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