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T250 Sound when turning/moving under load

Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Ohio
Hello,
I recently bought a ~2004 Bobcat T250 with around 2600 hours.
It seems to run fine except when turning under load or going up hill. It will make a sort of screeching noise different from a normal hydraulic strain noise.

I think it is coming more from the right lever(foot and hand controls), but it is hard to tell. It seems most prominent when I am just starting to go forward or turn right when the two joysticks are starting to go the opposite direction of one another.

I pulled the hydraulic filter today and noticed some metal glitter, but no big pieces. I've been searching for information, but haven't found anything quite right yet.

I found this video that seems like it is the same sound, but there is no other information on it.
 

DeepCountry

New Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
4
Location
Northwest USA
Hi…. Curious if you figured out a cause of the glitter in your return side? Some people say that a little glitter is normal?

I have a return tank with the filter bathed in the tank oil. I noticed some glitter in mine. I’m curious if that is normal and if the filter side is doing what it is supposed to do? I noticed the glitter on my initial 250hr rerun filter change.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Ohio
Hi…. Curious if you figured out a cause of the glitter in your return side? Some people say that a little glitter is normal?

I have a return tank with the filter bathed in the tank oil. I noticed some glitter in mine. I’m curious if that is normal and if the filter side is doing what it is supposed to do? I noticed the glitter on my initial 250hr rerun filter change.
Well unfortunately I don't have any good news. As far as the glitter in my main hydraulic filter, I wish I had taken pictures for you, but it was pretty thick. Small pieces, but when pouring oil out of the filter, it was constant silver glitter almost like glitter glue. If you just have a little bit, it may be normal. I've seen a lot of people say some is normal and to just keep an eye on it. I think mine came from the gear pump as you'll see below. I also had some brass in my case drain filter. About a quarter's worth. Rechecked after maybe 5 more hours of running and found the same amount again. I suspect the brass is coming from my drive pump.

I'll post a longer update in case anyone is seeing similar problems.

Shortly after asking the above question I began to lose lift/tilt after a few minutes of running. A while after that, drive issues under load began to develop.

It got to the point where my right stick pushes back to me when trying to move just the right track forward or backwards. I couldn't go up hill or move with a load at all. At the same time, my charge pressure would slowly drop to 0 while trying to move.

I pulled the gear pump, it was heavily scored on the inside. There are brass colored gaskets inside of it, one of those was breaking apart. After replacing it the overall charge pressure went up to spec at full throttle idle ~400 and my sound went away, but the right track movement issue continued.

I initially suspected the drive motor, but I found out it was pretty new and has less than 20 hours on it (replaced before I bought it). So I capped off the drive motor lines at the tandem drive pump and tried to move the right stick again. Same issue. No change in engine rpm, just the stick pushing back and dropping charge pressure. My understanding of this test from speaking with Bobcat techs is that if your drive pump is good, the engine should try to stall out like you are trying to push too much load.

That leads me to where I'm at now. Pulling the tandem pump. I'm doing it without pulling the engine and am at the point of removing the pulley which seems possible with a modified pulley puller. I'll update the thread after I get it out and rebuilt with how I did it for future reference to those who have similar issues.

On a side note, I also have auxiliary hydraulic issues (because why not). My aux only works in one direction. My grapple bucket will open, but won't close. It throws a 27-03 code: Front rod output error off, Front rod output signal wire #4330 voltage not present when voltage expected. I tried replacing the control handle on my right side since the old one was messed up. That did give me my trigger functionality back that I didn't realize was also missing until hooking up the new one, but same error with the hall effect switch for aux direction. I've checked continuity between the handle to the controller, controller to solenoids, all good. Swapped solenoids, problem stayed on the same side. Swapped stems, problem stayed. If I plug the other aux solenoids connector into the problem solenoid, it will function correctly and the grapple will close when I hit the open button. So I've definitely narrowed it down to either wiring or the controller.

I was initially under the impression that there is a separate PWM controller, but I can't seem to find one. I have yet to trace the wires completely, but it appears to me that it is all done through the main controller. If I could get confirmation on that, it would be helpful. I'll be working on this more when the drive pump is being rebuilt or I'm getting one shipped.

If anyone could offer input on the electrical stuff that'd be great. I'm starting to think I may have a faulty controller with the way my luck has been going. I may just wire up a toggle switch between the open and close solenoids to decide which solenoid to send the signal to as my funds are pretty tied up in the pumps at this point. I know I can't just send 10v's to the solenoids as they need pwm signals, but if I take the same pwm signal that's going to the open solenoid(I know this isn't a technical term) and toggle it to the close solenoid, I guess that would work for now.

If anyone has any input on either issue, it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Ohio
Quick update just in case anyone is following this,

It is possible to get the tandem pump without pulling the engine. I've seen that question asked a few times on the forum, just wanted to let everyone know it is for the T250 and probably is for similar models. I'm not too sure it was worth it over just pulling the engine. It was definitely not the easiest job and I'll have to be creative putting it back in.

I did it entirely alone without any sort of engine puller. I used a ratchet strap around the boom to help hoist it out so you can do that if maybe you don't have the loader in a good spot to pull the engine or have minimal help.

The pulley was the worst part. The nut holding it on was virtually seized for every thread. I ended up buying a stubby 1/2 impact and it helped get that off. Then I used an OTC 522 puller and cut down the forcing screw to 5 inches. Probably should have gone shorter to around 4 inches for better access, but I was worried about going too short. I also only had the right side jacked up and the right track off. It did help with access to some things, it would have been better with both sides jacked up and both tracks off, but I'm not entirely sure it's necessary to lift at all.

If anyone has opinions on getting the tandem pump rebuilt vs buying a reman from somewhere like LPS I'd like to hear them. I'm debating right now. Looks like I'd save 1000-1500 by getting it rebuilt, but I really don't want to have to do this again if something went wrong in the rebuilding process.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Ohio
Hello, I'm curious to see if you got your tandem pumps rebuilt and if so did that fix a problem?
Yeah I'll post an overall update of my situation in case others find some part of it helpful.

I did end up getting it looked at by a guy locally. He said it mostly looked fine except for my left side rotating group so he swapped that out. That explains a source of some of the brass I was seeing. I also vacuumed out the hydraulic reservoir multiple times as it was full of brass shavings. Took off the majority of the hoses involved with the pumps/drive-line and flushed them all out. Then performed a few flushes once I had it back together. Filling it up with new fluid/filter running for 30 seconds and functioning things. Then draining/refilling/new filter.

After all that, I was still getting a pretty big drop in charge pressure as soon as the brakes were off (lap bar down and pressed the "Press to Operate" button) and my right drive was still pretty tight. So as soon as I put the. So that told me that my drive motors were probably bypassing quite a bit of fluid to the point that my pumps couldn't keep up.

I pulled off one return hose at a time from the case drain filter and ran it while watching the flow. Whenever I would hit the "Press to Operate" button, the right side hose would go from a slow drip to a pour. If I moved the stick forward it would get even worse. Left side wasn't as bad, but I decided to get both motors rebuilt. The rebuilder told me that the right side, the side I thought was new, was missing seals and it looked like someone had gone through and replaced bad seals with silicone. Lucky me.

After all this, I put it back together and it ran pretty good. I ran it for ~30 hours, but the right side still made a pretty bad hydraulic straining noise when under load. So I took it back apart last weekend. This time I split the pump inside the machine. This way is much easier. You can get to the insides of the pumps without dealing with the pulley/belt. It makes it a little harder to keep everything clean since you have to work on the left side pump while it's still in the machine, but I had it apart in 4 hours compared to a weekend when I pulled the whole thing out.

The left side rotating group still looks decent, but the right does have some grooving in the valve plate/thrust plate/ and piston shoes. It also looks like someone put a hollow piston rotating group in here when the serial number calls for a solid group. It also has the old style valve plate rather than the updated style the left side had/has. This new style has an extra groove cut in it that is supposed to change the way it feels in the controls from what I've heard.

So I got a new/used rotating group, updated valve plate, thrust plate, and seal kit. I'm going to perform the sandpaper on top of glass lapping method that I've read about on here and other places to smooth out everything as perfect as I can before putting it all back together.

I'll try to remember to post another update on here in case anyone is interested.
 

elijahj

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
3
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ
I appreciate your posts as I am having trouble with my S250 that sounds like the exact same problems that you are having and had.
Did you ever check the pressure of your dual pumps when you capped them off from the motors? I was thinking a person could make a adaptor and when the dual pumps are capped off that you could uncap one of them and check the forward or reverse pressure.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Ohio
I appreciate your posts as I am having trouble with my S250 that sounds like the exact same problems that you are having and had.
Did you ever check the pressure of your dual pumps when you capped them off from the motors? I was thinking a person could make a adaptor and when the dual pumps are capped off that you could uncap one of them and check the forward or reverse pressure.
No I never checked the pressure on a gauge when I capped each side. I just capped a side off then tried to go forward/reverse to see if it would stall the engine or the levers would push back. They pushed back.
I'm pretty sure I've seen people or manuals talking about checking pressure at the pumps before. That's Probably the right way to do it, but with the amount of brass I was finding, I was pretty certain it was the pumps.
Let me know If I can help out any other way.
 

jesterisdead

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2024
Messages
1
Location
Missouri
Thanks for the great information. Did you ever get the whine to go away? Mines been whining for a bit. Just did a full fluids change, hydraulic oil actually looked damn good.
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,336
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
Every T-XXX that I have been around does that. If not without load, certainly with it. It always sounded to me like it the hyd. were going over relief.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2023
Messages
7
Location
Ohio
Thanks for the great information. Did you ever get the whine to go away? Mines been whining for a bit. Just did a full fluids change, hydraulic oil actually looked damn good.
I agree with KSSS, it always wines. Mine still makes some noises that make me think it's going out, but I've put a good 100+ hours on it since the debacle above and had no major change in charge pressure or other issues.

If your fluid was clear of metal and it's otherwise running good, I'd throw on some ear pro and forget about it.
 
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