Thoughts on Strobel Scrapers?

[bam1968]

When using a decent sized rubber tired tractor I don't think you would notice much difference between a 10 yd vs 12 yd scraper under 'normal' conditions. I have never pulled a scraper with a crawler though.

 

[petepilot]

fwiw. i have a small soil mover direct hook up to pulling unit 4 yard heaped. does not work well in close quarters behind a crawler because of the short tongue it takes far to much room to turn it around. a dolly type would be much more suited for use with a crawler

 

[1693TA]

I was furnished a handbook of engineering data to work with and help with calculations. It gives drawbar pulling forces required for different types of soils vs depth, and width of cut.

To pull a 12yd scraper when full just before stopping the cut requires just over 40K of drawbar pulling force on the horizontal plane and this is where pulling unit weight and traction is a large player. I have published data on the tractor. The target towing speed of a production scraper in action is between 4.5, and 6.0mph but I don't know if this speed is during the cut, or transport to dump area? To attain 42K of drawbar power my tractor is down to .56mph in low gear. Based on this information, it is why the tractor is deemed unsuitable for the 12yd scraper. Of course any manufacturer data is based upon ideal conditions, perfect, or new equipment without wear, etc.

All thing equal, a 10yd scraper would require less power from the tractor being narrower in the cut width and less weight in the bowl. This data of course is variable upon scraper design. However, a 10yd scraper may still be too large given the target cutting speed desired for this tractor. Being that I'm not looking for production speeds there are tolerances available and I have yet to evaluate this scenario.

 

[1693TA]

Was looking online for comparative data and found a common farm tractor around here being a New Holland T8-300. To use the same 14K drawbar criteria as my 140hp dozer provides requires 191hp at the flywheel for the same pulling power to the implement. However this same pulling power is at 5mph in eighth gear with dual rears. This is also unballasted with the front wheel drive engaged. There was less than 3% slip in these tests. I don't know percentage of ground slip in dozer testing as don't have that information.

A T8 series New Holland is a real "horse" of a tractor for sure and they are quite heavy. I've delivered several and hauled them in for service, but they are nowhere near 30K in weight.

 

[56wrench]

In my opinion, your cutting speed should be slow unless you are in sand and have to pump the bowl. If you snag a large stone or deadhead, and rip the drawbar off the tractor, you will be having a bad day

 

[1693TA]

In my opinion, your cutting speed should be slow unless you are in sand and have to pump the bowl. If you snag a large stone or deadhead, and rip the drawbar off the tractor, you will be having a bad day

I certainly agree but don't have any idea what is normal, or acceptable. No production involved so speed certainly is not a make or break contributor, or leading particular, but is a player non the less.

I've never pushed anything with this dozer yet, nor even had it in high gear at speed. At this point just relying upon other's experience and published data to finalize opinions. Any input is appreciated and none is discounted.

Thanks,

 

[bam1968]

It seems like in my neck of the woods that the scrapers you are looking at seem to hold there value pretty well. That always seems to help in the decision making process. That being said, you could buy a 'decent' Terex TS-14 for half the money. Use your dozer as a push cat and at least double.... maybe triple your production vs a 10 yd pulled with your dozer. Obviously there are downsides like 2 more engines to maintain etc.

 

[1693TA]

I'd seen where finding something that doesn't have a lot of wear to it is pretty close to new pricing. That is probably the main reason I'm entertaining/looking at new heavier than used as of recent. I've located a few inventories that some "deals" can be had to move them. After my projects are complete, then hopefully it can be sold off for a decent return.

Here is a short video I seen on youtube w/a D6C as the pulling unit. My tractor and this series competed in the same market segment so assuming performance would be very close. Interesting to see how these actually work. So far most of the scrapers pulled by dozers have been the dolly style:

 

[1693TA]

Received a text today for pricing on a new Strobel 12yd scraper and that is not going to happen in my lifetime. I also asked about their 8.5yd unit but no response to that. Far too much $$$ for a part timer to have. Found, (or should say uncle found) a used but almost new and in excellent shape "Holcom" 8yd scraper that was purchased and found to be too small so another larger unit was purchased. I need to call the owner tomorrow for a price. It is in Illinois near my uncles place and about 20 miles from where the work is needing done. Here is a link to Holcolm: https://holcombscraper.com/product/model-800/

For now however, the search continues.

 

[JaredV]

Found these two videos. Looks like when he starts the cut the back tires are off the ground and it's sliding on it's belly. Seems like that might make it hard to cut while transitioning from a flat to a downhill slope.

thttps://youtu.be/2A0u5zUzkfE

 

[1693TA]

Thank you. I would agree and seen the hinge point for the rear frame on their website. Not so sure that would fit all needs but again lack of experience. On the job I'm anticipating there is loading on the down slope, and dumping on both the up, and down slopes from the creek at the bottom.

According to my uncle the excavation company that purchased this one builds ponds and such for livestock brooding and feeding.

 

[1693TA]

I don't have a facebook account myself. My daughter does and forwarded several links from there in "Marketplace". I should say there is surprise on my part as never knew something like this existed. I've heard of "Marketplace" in the past, but it's always been involved with baby clothes, appliances, and such; never with anything like construction equipment for sale. Many of the links appear to be by private owners also so the scope is broadened for search.

 

[1693TA]

Reverting back to an earlier posting in my first inquiries to a scraper; the one I looked at that was being converted to hydraulic but not finished is a "Heil" brand. That name is popular around here in both dump bodies, and tank trailers, but until this I'd not seen that name on anything else.

I spoke with the selling party of the Holcolm scraper and it doesn't sound as something I'd like. As mentioned, to start a cut you drag it on it's belly with the rear wheels elevated. It is not, (as I'm told) very aggressive in starting a cut and kind of lacks when transitioning from a horizontal to a slope. The guy said that once a slope is established it does very well as it is not "top heavy" when heaped full. It was just not large enough for their needs.

I forgot to ask what they purchased for it's replacement.

 

[JaredV]

I suppose putting smaller tires on the front would help that, but unless you have some laying around already, that could get expensive.

 

[1693TA]

Talked to my uncle this morning who has ran across a "Buffalo" brand 8-10yd pull scraper in southern Illinois. Never heard of them myself and this unit was talked about at the "Liar's Bench" over coffee with friends he meets each morning. It's about 40 miles from his house so going over to have a look.

 

[pushbroom]

We run a converted Letourneau Ls 11 yard scraper behind a 8030 New Holland FWA tractor at 300hp. Full set of weights on the 8030 and traction is still the limiting factor. In light soils or sod you can load the bowl so fast it almost flies out the back and heaps up past the hoop. In clay you are lucky to get a level load with it spinning as you pump load it. I think a 250hp 4wd tractor would be a better match as the traction would be much better and 300hp is not needed. I can hardly load it past 70% torque before it spins out with all axles locked. Our 4wd is 600hp so a bit scared to put it behind that.

 

[1693TA]

That is interesting. Don't think I've ever seen an 8030 myself. Plenty of 8000 series and newer tractors however and with a full set of weights they make the trailer "swayback" so damned heavy. Couple their weight with 300+ in horsepower and it's a lot of pulling power. If you are lacking traction with that combination, these are a hard drag for certain. R. G. Letourneau didn't build anything light weight so that by itself is a load.

Uncle has a T7-260 New Holland, and a cousin has an articulated John Deere something that is well over 300hp. Both raise cattle with uncle being a feeder operation, the cousin a finishing and market operation along with farming almost 3000+/- acres. I drive for the cousin during harvest and much of these interactions are driving this very subject of the scraper. Both could use new ponds, or enlargement of existing ones. Once a scraper is finally settled upon, there will be room for more pasture, and a lagoon also.

This is an 8770 I repainted myself in 2020 and it pulls a scraper, but I don't know any more than that. It is local to me so next time I bring it in for service, I'll ask some questions. This is another cattle operation also.

Photos are at, and in my shop:

 

[56wrench]

This what i had. 9150 CaseIH & Isaacson KS1200 that i converted to hydraulic. I just sold the tractor but still have the scraper for sale

 

[1693TA]

I may have to revisit that original "Heil" scraper I looked at in the weeds. Much of the hydraulic conversion from cable looks similar to what I've seen here. It is not raining now so maybe I'll get over there tomorrow.

 

[JaredV]

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Ran across this one on craigslist. It's 7 yards. I doubt you're interested but I thought it was an interesting way to lift the bowl. If nothing else, pans are always interesting to look at!