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Tight spin on Cat oil filters

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
I don't know about you guys but I'm having He!! with tight filters. I do the oil changes and don't feel like I overtighten them but what a struggle to get them back off! I had a new C15 engine put in my 623 , the first oil change with the factory filter I had to use a 3/4 drive ratchet with a cheater on my strap wrench crushed the filter but finally got it. A friend who is an aircraft mechanic says the use Dow Corning DC4 to coat the gasket so I tried that still having problems. The filters say hand tight plus one turn I go about 3/4 turn. DP :confused:
 

RollOver Pete

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Mar 5, 2007
Messages
1,510
Location
Indio, Ca
Occupation
Operating Engineer/mechanic
I thought it was only me?
Last oil change I did on the D8R, I broke my strap wrench :Banghead
The filter looked like an upside down Hershys Kiss when I got done with it :bash
:cool2
 

DPete

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
Oh yea ,and it has to be the ones down in an engine enclosure that are the tightest. DP
 

Lashlander

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Jan 4, 2007
Messages
1,226
Location
Kodiak Ak.
I always coat the gasket with clean grease right out of the gun. It helps a lot. I know its not recommended but I've never had a problem with leaks.
 

smalltime

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Messages
104
Location
wv
A buddy of mine who is a mechanic says to run the engine for about ten minutes, enough to heat up the oil. Shut the machine off & loosen the filter. I have tried it a couple times & it seems to help. The downside is, sometimes you have to let it cool back down before changing the oil.
 

surfer-joe

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
1,403
Location
Arizona
Tight oil filters are preferable to loose ones. That said, I've fought many an over tightened one in my time. No fun!

Using some clean chassis lube is a good idea, one I used for many years. Some operator manuals call for using clean lube oil, also a good choice, but I've found the grease to be better. I generally put some on the threads too. I have on occasion, used never-seize for this purpose, sparingly! I'd be careful using silicone release agents or compounds, never heard of anyone using them for this purpose.

As for tightening a new filter, use hands only. Do Not use a wrench or pliers of any kind!! If Mungo is working for you, tell him to take it easy when installing filters. You can generally tell when a filter is "tight." Putting a full turn on it after that practically guarantees problems taking it back off. It doesn't need it. I know that Caterpillar calculates a torque range when filters are installed this way, but again, a new filter usually doesn't need that full extra turn.

When using a strap wrench of either the fabric or steel construction type, try to get as close to the top of the filter coming off as possible. That's where the shell is fastened to the base plate and it's the strongest point to twist on. If you tighten further down, there is only a thin steel tube and it usually bends, twists, and shrinks. You can also go for the very bottom, the outer shell is a bit stronger there and if the filter was carefully installed, it ought to hold, but the top is best -- if you can reach it.

Changing filters is pretty easy these days from what it used to be. Manufacturers place the filter mounts in much more accessible points than they used to, and spin-ons are way easier and cleaner to remove and install than cartridge styles.

But sometimes the engine maker and the chassis builder don't get the design right. Like when Cat first came out with the 631D model Scraper, which had a hard mounted engine oil filter manifold, which was bolted to the right front of the hydraulic tank, which was of course, mounted on the right-side fender supports. You can guess what happened to the oil manifold when the fender took a hit, and what quickly happened to the engines. We lost two at Stewartsville Dam before Cat came out with a PIP kit.

That's about the same time that Cat started importing the popular 2P4005 oil filter from England. Problem was, those filter base plate threads were metric instead of the American standard of O-ring boss. I don't know how many Cat had to take back all together, I sent about 500 of them back to Foley Tractor in New Jersey and we had to buy after-market filters for quite a while as Cat didn't have anything else available, a fact that upset my boss -- a died-in-the-wool Cat man -- to no end. He hated after-market parts for Cats.

Sometimes you just get a bad run of filters that won't seal up or come loose. One of my previous employers sued Baldwin over a batch of defective engine oil filters that caused them to burn up several haul-truck motors. The suit was in the several million dollar range, and I've never heard how it came out. Baldwin had refused to honor their warranty and pay for engine overhauls was what started the whole thing.

Well, good luck with the filters.
 

pushcat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
162
Location
USA
A buddy of mine who is a mechanic says to run the engine for about ten minutes, enough to heat up the oil. Shut the machine off & loosen the filter. I have tried it a couple times & it seems to help. The downside is, sometimes you have to let it cool back down before changing the oil.

We always drop the oil while it's still hot. You get a better sample and the contaminents are still suspended. Usually have to wear gloves to handle the hot filters too. They do seem to come off easier, never thought about it.
 

Wulf

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
584
Location
Canada
It is a good practice to drain the oil when its close to operating temperature but cooled enough that you don't get burned fingers.

I would loosen filters with a PROTO chain wrench (see picture of similar tool from OTC) positioned on the rim of the filter, not on the case and never had a problem even on overtightened filters.

I also always got into the habit of filling the new filters, through the outside of the filter head,with clean engine oil immediately prior to installation and just wiping a film of oil on the seal, then spin it until it stopped and then half a turn or whatever is specified by hand, the pressure applied (crush on the seal) will depend on the thread pitch.

After installation I would wipe them off with a clean rag and mark SMR and date in indellible marker just for record keeping.
 

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DPete

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Feb 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
Central Ca.
Wulf, that wrench is on it's way to my toolbox, thanks for the the tip. Now that's what this forum is about. :) :) DP
 

Orchard Ex

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Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
1,051
Location
Southern MD
The filters say hand tight plus one turn I go about 3/4 turn. DP :confused:

Is it hand tight plus 1 turn or is it gasket touches the block plus 1 turn?
I've been spinning the filter on until the gasket touches, i.e. the filter doesn't spin free anymore, then go the extra 3/4 or 1 turn or whatever the filter is marked. That usually works out to "hand tight" for mine. I haven't had any problems with leaks or removals this way but your mileage may vary.
 

Ross

Senior Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
357
Location
In the Rockies
I normally turn till the gasket touches then tighten as much as i can by hand.
Use any oil that comes to hand.
Sometimes baffle a filter strap and give it a little more.

Better the filters tight than falling off during service.

QSX15 Cummins are prone for filter adaptors unscrewing during routine service intervals and sometimes during operation dutys.

The worst screw on filters have to be Air dryers found on HGV's.
6inch nail and some 36" stillsons comes to mind.

Ross
 

skata

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Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,541
Location
midwest
Is it hand tight plus 1 turn or is it gasket touches the block plus 1 turn?
I've been spinning the filter on until the gasket touches, i.e. the filter doesn't spin free anymore, then go the extra 3/4 or 1 turn or whatever the filter is marked. That usually works out to "hand tight" for mine. I haven't had any problems with leaks or removals this way but your mileage may vary.

yeah that's the way to do it.
if you're tightening the filter by hand, and then turning it even more with a wrench, then you're doing it wrong.
 

CM1995

Administrator
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
13,492
Location
Alabama
Occupation
Running what I brung and taking what I win
It is a good practice to drain the oil when its close to operating temperature but cooled enough that you don't get burned fingers.

I would loosen filters with a PROTO chain wrench (see picture of similar tool from OTC) positioned on the rim of the filter, not on the case and never had a problem even on overtightened filters.

I also always got into the habit of filling the new filters, through the outside of the filter head,with clean engine oil immediately prior to installation and just wiping a film of oil on the seal, then spin it until it stopped and then half a turn or whatever is specified by hand, the pressure applied (crush on the seal) will depend on the thread pitch.

After installation I would wipe them off with a clean rag and mark SMR and date in indellible marker just for record keeping.

I agree Wulf - we do it the same way. Always mark your hours and dates on your filters regardless of other paperwork.

I also agree with Pushcat about bringing the oil close to operating temperature for a good oil sample.
 

Ross

Senior Member
Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
357
Location
In the Rockies
if you're tightening the filter by hand, and then turning it even more with a wrench, then you're doing it wrong.

Well that comments true in most cases but not all. Easy to hand tighten if the filters only 4" in diameter and is right in front of you.
What if the filters 8" in diameter and is in a silly one handed location?

Dropping engine oil when it's hot is standard practice. Removing certain oil's is a must when the fluids at operating temperature.

I always fill oil filters up on installation. If not, More than likely starve vital components on start up, Turbo comes to mind.

Ross
 
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