Tracked Harvester Carriers

[hvy 1ton]

ZTS vs Full Radius vs Swing Machine vs Converted Hoe

This one has been turning around in my head for a while now. I've been trying to figure out a good setup for cut to length logging. For no other reason than it something else to do besides school work. Hey, its been raining... a lot.

Anyway to keep comparison simple, i think i'll use Deere equipment as examples. I am a bleed green guy, so it only makes sense.
135 converted hoe
703 harvester/225 converted hoe 25t
853 harvester/2454 roadbuilder/harvester 35t

One of my first thoughts was that a 25 ton machine can't make out to well on primary thinning jobs and i wondered why no one makes a 135 or 160 sized machine to fill this application. Maybe i'm way off, but that's why i'm asking. I'm not really expecting it to keep up with any of the larger machines, but think it would work well for certain apps. The nice thing about this system is versatility. It can dig, cut trees, and run a mulcher. A forestry shear would be a low cost way to get started with clearing/thinning jobs.

The next comparison is of the 703 and 225 hoe setup for the woods. Both are in the 25 ton operating class, weighing somewhere around 52,000 with a dangle head. The 703 has 22hp extra, 2 extra cylinders, and a hi walker undercarriage. The 703 is a purpose built machine, and i would imagine it will hold up much better in the woods than the 225. The 703 also has a much tighter swing radius than a 225. About the only advantage the 225 has is cost, even after conversion.

Now for the bigwood/high production machines there are the 853 and the 2454. The 853 is a beast in the woods, 8.1L @274hp, it has almost as much flow as 2454 without counting the saw pump. Looking at it again, do harvester even have saw pumps, or is it only for the feller bunchers? I'm not really expecting the 2454 to preform on the same level as the 853, but give up some performance for flexibility. I don't have any idea how well a 2454 would work as a at stump harvester or if its even a feasible idea. I'm not sure how possible this whole idea is either, but could you spec out a 2454 roadbuilder with the hardware to run a harvester and then put dangle head on a quick hitch? A second, less desirable solution would be to switch to a harvester stick whenever cutting. I have a feeling the road builder stick/quick hitch will be to heavy to swing a big head. For what little it would, I was planing on pulling the thumb off to save a little weight.

I have a feeling that the 2454 would preform slightly better against the 853 than the 225 against the 703, but it's probably more cost effective to run a dedicated harvester and have the 2454 be a loader when cutting wood. With enough time in Pro-E and a big piggy bank i could build a real hot rod of a dual purpose machine, but i digress. I wrote some of this last night before i fell asleep on my desk, some of it might not make sense.

 

[hvy 1ton]

Well, i guess i typed a long enough post. I only had a few questions and managed to write all that without saying a whole lot.:Banghead
On a side note school sucks.:bash

Has anyone used a 8-16 ton machine with a shear to do thinning/clearing? Anyone use a stroke or roller head harvester? Would a shear or harvester be faster at laying whole trees down to run through a chipper? I would only be processing usable wood, the rest gets chipped.

Would it be possible to run a head off a quick hitch with the excavator stick on a roadbuilder? Would it be too much weight at the end of the stick? What is the cost to setup a machine to run a harvester?

I was cruising youtube a couple of days ago and saw a fixed head processor, i think it was a Prentice. I didn't know they existed, what are the pros/cons compared to a dangle head?

 

[Dig-UP]

The major pros of a fixed head over a dangle head is the ability to put the tree wherever you want it. With a dangle head, once you cut the tree, its coming down. The fixed head allows you to pick the tree up, swing with it, travel, then drop. On the other hand, a dangle head tends to be a touch faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU4g-cbO7yc

 

[tonka]

um i got a ? why are they cutting those logs so short?

 

[Dig-UP]

They are cut to about 8'6".

 

[hvy 1ton]

The major pros of a fixed head over a dangle head is the ability to put the tree wherever you want it. With a dangle head, once you cut the tree, its coming down. The fixed head allows you to pick the tree up, swing with it, travel, then drop. On the other hand, a dangle head tends to be a touch faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU4g-cbO7yc

So can any other harvester heads be setup fixed? On the waratah site it says they don't come with rotator and links or something like that. I'm kind lost as to what the links are.

 

[JAK5]

um i got a ? why are they cutting those logs so short?

Some paper and pulp mills only except 8' wood. Also, the pulpwood and logs are all merchandised out in the woods before they go to the mill. Michigan in particular can typically haul alot heavier loads to market that most other states. So the log trucks are set up with alot more axles. Large payloads / Less Trips!

Also, an answer to an earlier question... dangle head harvesters are usually lighter and easier on the base machine. Typically dangle head harvesters are easier on the surrounding trees, becasue they use gravity and let the tree naturally fall (with a little coaksing). Fixed head harvesters force the tree down in selective cuts. But fixed head harvesters are built a little hardier so they work better in hardwood stands. Dangle heads can really fly in plantations, especially pine plantations..

 

[John C.]

We have feller buncher heads pretty much on purpose built carriers. These are usually used in tree length skidding operations. The timber is almost always less than 24" diameter. The processing is done on the landing with either a stroke delimber or a dangle head. Falling with a dangle head can be done out here but the processors are so expensive and take such a beating when falling it is usually more cost effective to hire a feller buncher in.

Most of the dangle heads are mounted on excavators or logging shovels.

There used to be some cut to length systems out here with a wheeled processor and forwarder combination. I've seen these in commercial prethinning but for the most part I think these have died out. Capital costs were huge as was the maintenance and the pulp market too fickle to consistantly support those operations. Our terrain also has a lot to do with where these machine can operate profitably.

I have seen 120 size Kobelcos with small Keto dangle heads a few years back doing prethinning. The machines were beat to death and the company went bust is short order.