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Wildland Fire Dozers

bear

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Mar 22, 2008
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541
Location
South Central Kentucky
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Math, Physics, keeping out of trouble and doing od
It takes a special kind of person to keep his cool in that kind of situation (no pun). I don't know if I could actually do that. I really think being shot at is safer in many ways. lady luck may be having a hormonal fit and want to get even. My hats off to the folks that can do the job. :notworthy


And thanks for the information. I am curious about it but fire is freind to no one.
 

Deas Plant

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Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
That's a bit harsh, isn't it????????????????

Hi, Bear.
Quote: "fire is freind to no one." Unquote.

That's a bit harsh, isn't it, Bear? Would you like to be branded that way? LOL. Fire can be a very useful tool when used correctly. No small part of the problem these days is the 'greenies' and so-called 'environmental protectionists' who have virtually put a stop to preventative burning off of accumulated fuel load to stop wildfires getting started in the first place. Most of these people have no idea of what it's like in a wildfire and how much harm one does to the environment compared to the much cooler temperatures of a controlled burn-off when the weather is cooler and the fuel somewhat damper and/or greener.

We have exactly the same problem DownUnder, people who don't know what they are talking about making a LOT of noise and being taken notice of over and above those who do have a clue or three. A LOT of the Australian bush has evolved over the millenia to NEED fire to survive. Some species of plants and trees DownUnder have extremely tough seed pods that actually require the heat of a fire to crack them open so that they can germinate. No fire, no new plants but the 'greenies' choose to ignore that tiny minor detail.

Just my 0.02 - borne out by experience, mine and others.
 

Temu

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Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
132
Location
California
Well said, DEAS!

Hi, Bear.
Quote: "fire is freind to no one." Unquote.

That's a bit harsh, isn't it, Bear? Would you like to be branded that way? LOL. Fire can be a very useful tool when used correctly. No small part of the problem these days is the 'greenies' and so-called 'environmental protectionists' who have virtually put a stop to preventative burning off of accumulated fuel load to stop wildfires getting started in the first place. Most of these people have no idea of what it's like in a wildfire and how much harm one does to the environment compared to the much cooler temperatures of a controlled burn-off when the weather is cooler and the fuel somewhat damper and/or greener.

We have exactly the same problem DownUnder, people who don't know what they are talking about making a LOT of noise and being taken notice of over and above those who do have a clue or three. A LOT of the Australian bush has evolved over the millenia to NEED fire to survive. Some species of plants and trees DownUnder have extremely tough seed pods that actually require the heat of a fire to crack them open so that they can germinate. No fire, no new plants but the 'greenies' choose to ignore that tiny minor detail.

Just my 0.02 - borne out by experience, mine and others.

You are EXACTLY right...these places NEED a burn-off from time to time. It's natural...it's part of the design. Many parts around here are tinder-box ready...FULL of vegetation that has been compounded year after year and "saved" from burning. We too have certain pines that actually need the fire to release the seeds.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Fire is nobody's friend?????????????

Hi, ****.
I wasn't aware that some of your pines need fire to open their eed pods. Thanks for the 'heads-up'. We do have several species of native lines with some good timber trees amongst them. These mostly grow in the wetter areas close to the coast and I think all are East coast dwellers.

Then there is a whole 'nuther' list of pine species that grow in drier areas, are somewhat smaller in size and are generally only good for wood turning due to the stunted nature of them. Many of these species have an oily wood that burns nicely, thank you. The oil has a scent that stays in the wood for ages, especially if kept indoors out of the weather. However, even these trees have developed fire resistance and will mostly survive relatively hot fires if they are in good health, i.e., not much dead wood on them.

Hi, Bear.
When was the last time you had a charcoal-grilled BBQ steak? Fire is a pretty good friend to me when I'm BBQ-ing. Did you by some chance mean that wildfires are nobody's friend?
 

Dozerboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
TX
Occupation
Operator
Deas SoCal and Australia have a lot in common and far as the types of vegetation the grows there. There where these pine trees the we call Torrey Pines that are only suppose to both places. The the leaf licker's loved those trees. It was hell every time we rusled a needle of those trees.
 

Dozer575

Banned
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
274
Location
Seattle, wa
Occupation
Machinist and occasional pt Dozer oper
In fact, I would go so far as to say that you are DANGEROUS anyway because of all the crap and misinformation that you have posted on this and other forums under several different pseudonyms for many years now.

Examples please, what are you talking about?
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Examples.

Hello, Bob.
Just for starters, your earlier statement in this thread that it would be the thrill of a lifetime to be working on a wildland fire. In my experience, the people who go into fire-fighting for a thrill also tend to be a risk takers, which means they may very well endanger others too, either directly by their actions or because they get into a situation where they have to be rescued by others. If I was in charge of a fire crew and knew that one member was a thrill seeker or wanted to be there for the "THRILL" of it, I'd have serious reservations about having that person on the crew, whether it hurt their feelings or not.

The 'Tree Clearing Day' thread of a couple of years ago where you stated categorically that front end loaders could not push trees over because of the elevation of the push point, i.e., the loader arm pivot point and the angle of push which would cause the bucket to slide up the tree. I think that one was pretty well put to rest - remember my photos - along with the rest of your rot about 'weeds' and clearing alongside preservation areas. Funny how you went quiet for a good while after that.

Your persistant ranting that hi-sprocket drives are not as stable as the oval track designs - the U.S. Army doesn't seem to think so as it is still buying Cat dozers, both oval track and hi-sprocket, so long as they meet the army requirement of a 45 deg, tipping angle - as distinct from a slide angle.

Your persistant rubbishing of Caterpillar's range of dozers in the face of the market figures. The evidence would seem to indicate that, if they are 'rubbish', they are better 'rubbish' than any of the competition that they so consistently outsell. Are the people who purchase them all utter dills?

In the 'decelerator' thread, you said that you chose whether or not to decelerate and that is fine by me so long as I'm not paying your wages or the repair bills. You then went on to mention the shock loads involved in direction changes with large CNC machines. Firstly, what has a CNC machine got to do with whether or not you use the decelerator pedal on a large dozer? Secondly, the amounts of mass involved are so vastly different that there is no grounds for comparison, not to mention the fact that CNC machines are run by electric motors which have their own built-in shock reduction systems.

Do I need to go on? Over the years that I have been watching your posts, I freely admit that you have posted some good stuff, 'SOME' being the operative word. Trouble is, there has been a LOT of lesser quality stuff in between the good ones.
 

mouse

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Jul 27, 2008
Messages
166
Location
Sydney, Australia
Occupation
(wishfully) avoiding work as much as possible
Do I need to go on?

:bash

:falldownlaugh

my experience with fires these days, if you haven't sat through 4 months of sundays training then they wont let you touch a thing.

watching some whippersnapper trying to cut down a tree is a joke but do you think they'd let me pick up a saw despite pretty much living on one for 6 years?

its got to the point where i refuse to get involved in the local fire scene, too much politics and bs imho, i reckon most of their practices are too dangerous and far too focused on relying upon safety gear to get them out of trouble.

i've fought my fair share of fires. the bloody things are not much fun when the temp is up and the wind is blowing...
 

bear

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
541
Location
South Central Kentucky
Occupation
Math, Physics, keeping out of trouble and doing od
Hi, Bear.
Quote: "fire is freind to no one." Unquote.
Would you like to be branded that way? LOL. Fire can be a very useful tool when used correctly.[/QUOTE]

I know what yer saying in that respect Deas, I shoulda been a mite clearer and said it's not yer freind if you're sitting in it, especially if you're sitting in the middle of it on something that don't go any faster than a quick trot. (even with all the fire protection. Fire terrifies me I won't deny) :D :rolleyes:
Things should be managed correctly and let controlled burns or the other things that do need to happen happen, for a well balanced ecosystem.

I'm just gonna blame the oversite (on prev post) on needing a fix of HEF after another 19 hour day. :D
 

Deas Plant

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Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Yoo-hoo. D8Bob/Dozer575, where are you?

Hello, Bob.
WOTT????????? NO response?????????????

If I were a slightly more sensitive person, I might feel hurt and rejected that you haven't replied to my list of examples above. Not #@^*~ likely. LOL.
 

OCR

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
Wildland Fire Dozers :

Here are a few more fire pictures... from the Dunn Mountain Fire.
This fire was about 20 miles outside of Billings MT, and ended up at a little over 103,000 acres.

First two were taken by my DOZB... dozer boss in civilian language... and he was one of the best.

Last ones were taken by me...had to set out a smoke event... and it was very unpleasant. If you look hard, there's a helicopter visible in the second
smoke picture... left of center, 1/3 down. Last picture is my dozer boss.

Not sure who the other fire fighters are.

On edit: I should add some info... I went to this fire on 08/27/08... and was there for 8 days... left fire on 09/03/08.

If you can see the ground in the smoke pictures... yes... they're rocks... and
a lot of them... was not a smooooth ride.

Nobody noticed I hadn't logged in for 8 days???... :crying... :lmao


OCR
41 Dunn Mountian fire.jpg

42 Dunn Mountain Fire.jpg

DSCF0691.jpg

DSCF0692.jpg

DSCF0694.jpg
 
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OCR

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
Wildland Fire Dozers :

Good to see you made it back safe and sound!

Thanks, not too many problems... other than that smoke thing... finally had to stick my fists... like when you rub them... into my eyes, and just hold them there... talk about eyes burning. Had my air on full blast too... then I thought that was making it worse, so I turned it off. Instantly found out that
was wrong, so I turned it back on.

I think I sat there a good half to 3/4 of an hour... total lack of visibility,
couldn't even see my sweeps at times.

Take care,


OCR
 

OCR

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Messages
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Montana
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Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
Just a quick note... the 8 days included the day I went and the day I left.

Didn't want my math to look wrong... :p


OCR
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Yer Rabsence????????????????

Hi, OCR.
Welkum back, M8. Especially being in one piece.

Ackshully, the board did seem a pretty peaceful place for the last week, oh, except for young [-Agent] getting his self banned twice in the one thread. Booted once and was back again in minutes with a whole new ID, a list of grievances and a plea to not be booted. 'THE BUTTON' was pushed again.

Peaceful? Ye Gods, I couldn't even get a rise out of Dozer575 - see post #110 above. LOL.
 
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pushkid84

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Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
66
Location
flagstaff, arizona
im sure that if i read the entire thread i would find the answer to this question.
can any of you give me advice or guidance as to where i might look to find a dozer hand job for the forest service. any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
 

amidozer

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Plymouth, CA
Occupation
Own heavy equipment construction company
ddiiggy

Cal Fire runs a dozer school at Ione California. Training usually happens in May of each year.

Cal Fire, Kern County Fire and another different agencies send operators to instruct the new operators from a lot of different departments. I believe that if you wanted to put a dozer on contract in CA you, as a civilian might be able to attend the school at your own expense.

Wild Pete


We take the 1 day classroom training in May at the Acadamy. They've never mentioned being able to take the actual dozer training. Their thought is "if you run it for a living, you know how to run it".

They are talking changing the training to an actual 'college course' that we would have to take. It would run DAYS, not just one, but would be good for a couple years. Again, just classroom work.:pointhead
 

amidozer

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Plymouth, CA
Occupation
Own heavy equipment construction company
From the Serious Accident Investigation Report:



Thanks for your input, trackfanatic... these reports are difficult to read at best... due to all the acronyms that are used by the government agencies.

I don't think the second operator meant that the track actually came off of the machine... the machine went off the low side of the the slope.


OCR

You're exactly right..

Supposedly there are errors in that report. We'll probably never hear the whole story, but the outcome won't change, will it. Rest in peace Matt.

Anyone who is thinking about becoming a private, for hire fire dozer needs to read and heed the Matt Will story...
 

Countryboy

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Jun 8, 2006
Messages
3,276
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Georgia
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Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums amidozer! :drinkup
 

amidozer

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Plymouth, CA
Occupation
Own heavy equipment construction company
Butte Complex fire dozer pictures

I have some pretty good pictures of dozers working the Camp/Concow branches of the Butte Complex from June/July 08. Can I post them yet?

AMI dozers wife...AMI Boss ;)
 
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