Fire Apparatus Oddities

[DMiller]

Just a rant as to problems with these. As a wrench back a few decades these were a mess as to finding parts as aged out with next to no miles, cities running 1950s and 60s models with Gas engines and Hydraulic brakes that sat forever rotting in Fire Stations, on running Ton Trucks with minimal pumps capabilities on 1” hand lines for brush work.
Was speaking with people involved of local VFPD as to requirements of insurers to keep latest and greatest up to standards equipment or lose Insurer Accreditation for home owner policies. Equipment now taking at times up to Two Years for procurement Orders wheee are in general Obsolete by time get delivered for Pump or Stowage or even Tools/Appliance types.
Our fire fighters mainly rely of Used equipment sold that still meets some regulatory level but not always all and keeps purchase expenses down. The guys are currently dealing with newer chassis with Canbus Electrical and those associated Glitch Faults due to sitting, Corrosion, weather affected issues. Cannot be without the machines and cannot readily beg borrow steal or buy additional to cover when sent to a dealer for work and that works as is Fire Apparatus being T&M expensive

 

[crane operator]

The new fire trucks are eye wateringly expensive. It hard for the rural volunteer departments to have a large enough tax base to keep up.

 

[Truck Shop]

A thread that can go sideways, without flashing reds & sirens.

 

[DMiller]

HDT World in General went Sideways.

 

[Truck Shop]

I'm not up on the countless abbreviations, so many these days. What's HDT?

 

[DMiller]

Heavy Duty Truck

 

[terex herder]

I think 80% of all fire and ambulance manufacturers are now owned by vulture (venture) capital. The manufacturers are so backloged there is minimal quality control. I know of one instance where a new truck was delivered with a mismatched door. The department was told "take it, or some other department will and you go to the back of the line". At the same time, many departments want all the latest bells and whistles. Every truck is custom, and there may be little time to properly incorporate the latest gizmo into the truck.

Yes, my local department survives on hand me down equipment. The last new truck is a 1994, the two brush trucks were well used from bigger budget departments and are 2000's vintage.

And like most every other volunteer department, the biggest problem is manpower, not money. By next year the majority of the department will be on medicare. We are fortunate that we do not cover any major roads.

 

[DMiller]

Mack at one time Supplied St Louis and KC MO Fire Apparatus, in 1977 as I worked Mack on Chouteau in STL the contracts were winding down with some of the last MB Series. St Louis had some real issues with these and stopped buying them or the MC/MR to go with Pierce.

Last Brush Truck I was in at SCCVFPD was a 1978 F350 4wd with a Gas Engine Side mounted Pump and two 1" Hand Lines, had Eight Indian Tank Hand Sprayers in racks, 1993. It burned in a Brush Fire in 1998.

 

[crane operator]

I think our local departments are getting caught. They are raising the tax base, to hire full time guys for coverage/ equipment. In order to get that better rating, for decreasing costs for the residents in insurance fire rates

It almost seems like the fire rating system is funded by the fire equipment manufacturers....

 

[Truck Shop]

Heavy Duty Truck

I was thinking--Harley Davidson Trike with a pump up fire extinguisher.
*
This harvest one farmer has already had four field fires---probably a lack of grease
started two of those. With a total of 6 in one day, right now the smoke is pretty thick
with fires burning in all directions. The cities water shed area is ablaze in Blue Mountains
called the Paradise fire. Fire fighters pitched tents at WWCC campus lawn because
access to showers and lawn/shade.

 

[JLarson]

It's another industry that rides the free government money train as hard as possible.

 

[Shimmy1]

It's another industry that rides the free government money train as hard as possible.

Get involved, I'm sure there's a volunteer department close to you that could use some of your time.

You will soon understand what we have to deal with. I have been on the department for 18 years, have been an assistant Chief for 8. If a firefighter gets injured, or God forbid killed in the line of duty, and there is something that is aged-out (turnout, air pack, truck) and some lawyer somewhere can prove it, the Chief can be held personally liable. Fact.

So, before you talk smart, know that some of us are trying the best we can with what we have.

 

[JLarson]

Not what I meant, like all other avenues of government contracting prices keep going up, delivery times continually get missed, quality is always slipping, companies look at anything government as a money printer for them. Just drives up the price for everyone but big cities can just throw more money at the problem.

If the equipment was more reasonably priced all departments could have better equipment regardless of their financial resources. I think every department should have the latest apparatus with SCBA seats, separate compartments for contaminated gear, sufficient lighting and lots of other improvements. They should be 100% exempt from emissions too, apparatus that has to go to the dealer on the hook is wasted time and money.


Btw all our near departments are full time or private. I'd have no problem volunteering with a VFD if there was one closer, mechanically or using my hazmat and industrial rescue experience.

 

[cuttin edge]

At 1 time we had 5 fire stations here. Now there are 2. They purchased a new unit last spring. A little over 2 million. The fire training center had a couple gmc gas jobs, a couple of those cabover Fords and a cabover Scott. They are all mint condition. But like you say they sit so much

 

[Truck Shop]

Old fire trucks make great recycling, mostly aluminum shell and boxes. Friend Steve, just
cutup two pumpers, sold both low mileage detroit's to a marine engine salvage for better
than scrap price, trans, frame & axles went straight into scrap transport.

 

[John C.]

I used to see American LaFrance fire engines just sitting near industrial places. I asked a client about it who said there wasn't enough municipal water supply to allow the user for that type of zoning. The issue was skirted by buying up the orphans and parking them on site. As I recall the couple that I looked at were big gas engines and when I asked if anyone had tried to run them, no one knew for sure.

 

[crane operator]

I used to see American LaFrance fire engines just sitting near industrial places. I asked a client about it who said there wasn't enough municipal water supply to allow the user for that type of zoning. The issue was skirted by buying up the orphans and parking them on site. As I recall the couple that I looked at were big gas engines and when I asked if anyone had tried to run them, no one knew for sure.

Sometimes the municipal systems won't have enough pressure at high demand, to meet the requirements for the sprinkler system tests. I used to see stand by pump systems in enclosures for that, and I imagine that's what they were doing with the old pumpers, a cheaper stand by system for the fire suppression/ sprinkler system.

 

[cuttin edge]

Friends of mine were volunteer fire fighters. 1 made a career out of it, I think he's a captain. They had an awesome Pepsi machine in the fire haul. 75 cents and you get a beer. Anyway one of them was explaining the gauges to me. I guess if output exceeds your input when you are hooked to a fire hydrant, it can damage the city system

 

[Coaldust]

There is a tiny, sub, 2,000 person incorporated City in the MatSu Borough called Houston. It is the only place in Alaska where it’s legal to purchase and use fireworks.

Gorilla Fireworks build a beautiful, bright yellow, retail warehouse on a large chunk of land, with a camp ground and landscaping.

They just purchased three Surplus AFD rear-mount 104’ Rosenbauer aerial ladder trucks for the LOL’s. They had the ladders deployed with flags over the 4th for the 250 year celebration.