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c3.4 misfire and blues smoke

S

skidsteerssuck

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williston
have a 2012 caterpillar 262c2. it has the c3.4 in it. TMW is the serial prefix. Here is the issue when engine is cold runs perfect starts fine. Once it is at operating temp it will run at high idle anything over 1600 rpms for about a minute and began to slow down and begin sputtering and blowing blue smoke. already replaced the turbo. cracked injector lines and low and high idle. replaced transfer pump. I already know that the tank and fuel lines are good. does anyone have any other ideas on this. there are no service codes. all cat trouble shooting leads to nothing.
 
Mobiltech

Mobiltech

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Possible suction side air leak on fuel system. Maybe the clear plastic bowl under the fuel filter. There are orings that seal it to the filter. You have changed the filter I guess?
Valve clearance would be good to check too.
There is also an electric timing advance on the fuel pump. Not sure if that would affect it when hot if it isn't working.
 
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S

skidsteerssuck

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Nige said:
What process are you using to pull the Diagnostic Codes..?

A couple of thoughts.
1. Valve clearances..?
2. Intake system..? I assume you've checked it but it's not included in your OP.
Click to expand...



Just set over head about 20 hours ago. had intake system apart when replaced the turbo and checked the manifold for cracks all good there
 
S

skidsteerssuck

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Mobiltech said:
Possible suction side air leak on fuel system. Maybe the clear plastic bowl under the fuel filter. There are orings that seal it to the filter. You have changed the filter I guess?
Valve clearance would be good to check too.
There is also an electric timing advance on the fuel pump. Not sure if that would affect it when hot if it isn't working.
Click to expand...

when you get transfer pump from cat they sell it as an assembly with pump/base/ and new filter. and I checked for air in the fuel with a clear hose and it is good. not sure if that would or not but I will do some research on it
 
S

skidsteerssuck

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williston
Nige said:
What Mobiltech was referring to (I think) is the O-ring seal under the clear plastic bowl marked #1 in this illustration. Also the O-Ring under ring #2 that seals the filter element to the head.

View attachment 118647
Click to expand...

these seals and O-rings are good verified there is no air in fuel system. did some research and there is in fact a cold start advance on the injection pump. talking to a local cat dealer we might be thinking there is a problem in the injection pump or the pump housing may have rotated just enough the create the issue. think more likely an internal issue than a rotated pump housing due to the fact that no mounting bolts were loose.
 
Mobiltech

Mobiltech

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skidsteerssuck said:
these seals and O-rings are good verified there is no air in fuel system. did some research and there is in fact a cold start advance on the injection pump. talking to a local cat dealer we might be thinking there is a problem in the injection pump or the pump housing may have rotated just enough the create the issue. think more likely an internal issue than a rotated pump housing due to the fact that no mounting bolts were loose.
Click to expand...

I did have one of these that would start and run cold but needed ether to start when warm . I did a lot of testing and it came down to a weak fuel injection pump. I was surprised to find the Cat dealer stocked a pump because they had changed a few too for this reason.
There was also a TIB on the fuel pump. Maybe Nige or your dealer can get it for you. Here's what it says.

There have been a number of isolated instances with issues with the fuel injection pump (2) and 352-3694 Solenoid (Cold Start Advance) (1), 300-3573 Solenoid , 335-5735 Solenoid (3) on C3.4 engines.

These issues with the fuel injection pump can cause seized solenoids, excessive smoke, the engine to run rough, the engine to stall and engine performance issue
 
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Nige

Nige

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G..G..G..Granville.........!! Fetch your cloth.
This is what the Systems Operation Manual says about the cold start feature. If you want the complete electrical schematic for the machine PM me with the complete Serial Number and your e-mail address. If you need more info on the fuel injection pump operation regarding the timing advance mentioned below then let me know in the same PM.

Cold Start Advance

When the key switch is turned ON, the ECM will activate the cold start advance relay if the engine coolant temperature is below 35 °C (95 °F).

The cold start advance feature controls a relay that activates and deactivates a solenoid on the fuel pump at a certain jacket water temperature. The solenoid on the fuel pump, when energized, extends a shaft that changes the roller ring setting in the fuel pump in order to advance the timing during a cold start.
 
92U 3406

92U 3406

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I know I'm dragging up an old thread but I've got a similar issue with a C3.4 engine in a 236B3. Original complaint was crank but no start. Electric primer pump on the fuel filter was shot (motor spun but would not pump fuel). Replaced the assembly and it now sends fuel to the injection pump. While cranking it smokes white smoke like a chimney but will not catch. Once it did catch and it idled like crap, would not idle up. Absolutely zero smoke out the exhaust while it was running. Tried running it off a seperate primer pump from a bucket of clean fuel. No change so I'm suspecting an injection pump issue. Removed the shutoff solenoid and inspected it. Its working but when bench testing its letting fuel dribble from the inlet line down into the pump body and return line when actuated (free flowing between all ports when de-energized). Based on my findings I'm tempted to suspect the shutoff valve is sticking partially open and causing fuel to bypass the pump and flow out the return. When I pull the return line off and put it into a bucket I get about 1/3 of the electric primer pump's volume going out the return line (appears to be flowing out through the shutoff solenoid). Am I on the right track here by suspecting the shutoff solenoid is at fault?
 
B

Brad Cruse

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92U 3406 said:
I know I'm dragging up an old thread but I've got a similar issue with a C3.4 engine in a 236B3. Original complaint was crank but no start. Electric primer pump on the fuel filter was shot (motor spun but would not pump fuel). Replaced the assembly and it now sends fuel to the injection pump. While cranking it smokes white smoke like a chimney but will not catch. Once it did catch and it idled like crap, would not idle up. Absolutely zero smoke out the exhaust while it was running. Tried running it off a seperate primer pump from a bucket of clean fuel. No change so I'm suspecting an injection pump issue. Removed the shutoff solenoid and inspected it. Its working but when bench testing its letting fuel dribble from the inlet line down into the pump body and return line when actuated (free flowing between all ports when de-energized). Based on my findings I'm tempted to suspect the shutoff valve is sticking partially open and causing fuel to bypass the pump and flow out the return. When I pull the return line off and put it into a bucket I get about 1/3 of the electric primer pump's volume going out the return line (appears to be flowing out through the shutoff solenoid). Am I on the right track here by suspecting the shutoff solenoid is at fault?
Click to expand...
Did you ever figure out your problem with your engine? Mine is doing the exact same thing.
 
T

thepumpguysc

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First and foremost, make sure u have fuel being pumped TO THE INJ PUMP INLET..
It’s been my experience that the pump is full of rust from poor filter maintenance.. and that’s the root cause of no throttle response.
 
C

Cva654

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Texas
thepumpguysc said:
First and foremost, make sure u have fuel being pumped TO THE INJ PUMP INLET..
It’s been my experience that the pump is full of rust from poor filter maintenance.. and that’s the root cause of no throttle response.
Click to expand...
I have fuel being pumped to injection pump. It will runs great for about 10 minutes and then start running rough like its not getting fuel. Then once I idle it down and let it recover for about a minute or so it will run fine for about 5 minutes again
 
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