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What are all the things you do with a grader?

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Re showing my age - again.

Hi, Nextdoor.
I could care less about showing my age but I'd hafta work at it and I'm too lazy to do that.

'Sides, I've DONE one thing that very few others on this or most other forums have achieved yet. What's that, you ask. Simple. I've survived long enough to reach the age that I am now. Have you survived long enough yet to reach the age that I am now? If not, you still have the task ahead of you. What's more, I'm in pretty darn good health for a bloke half my age.


LOL.

Those old 21F's didn't make a bad bunk either with those wide seats. (Staying on thread topic.)
 
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Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Oh?

Hi, Rocksn'Roses.
Oh? And what makes you think you have? I see 43 years of work in your profile. What makes you think that is enough? LOL.

Hi, GPSGrader.
Flat-bottomed ditches are relatively easy assuming you can get one end of the machine or the other - or both - down on the bottom of the ditch. Angle the blade round until the toe is picking up just outside the wheel in the ditch and have the heel delivering the windrow just inside the line of the wheel in the ditch, so that the windrow itself is mostly up on the side of the ditch. Next pass, pick the windrow up and carry it up the bank.

It is also possible to set the blade to pick up inside the wheel in the ditch and deliver outside that same wheel if need be.

Where possible, I always work material up batters while travelling uphill 'cos the material moves across the blade faster that way and you get less spillage around the low end of the blade.

I have made a bit of a specialty of being able to set my blade to deliver the material under the machine where I can't physically SEE the heel of the blade. I have used this method in quite a few various situations and that skill has been very handy many times.

One of the situations where I would use it would be side-cutting a batter where the batter is too steep to put the machine right up on it sideways and there isn't sufficient room to run the of the machine flat with the inside wheels against the toe of the batter. I would put the machine half on the batter, half on the flat, side-shift the blade and set it so that the heel was delivering the trimmed material under the machine between the the rear wheels on the toe line of the batter. Having the moldboard rolled well forward helps with the cutting and pushes the material a little further clear of the toe of the batter, making it easier to pick up next pass.

I have also been known to set the machine up in the same half on-half off the batter position and pick the trimmed windrow up from inside the front wheel and deposit it just outside the rear wheel.

The ways in which you can use a grader, especially the later articulated graders, are mostly only limited by the operator's imagination. Study your job situation, work out where you need to cut material from and where you need to get it to, then work out how to set your machine up to achieve that result in th fewest possible number of passes.

I once had to cut around 150 feet of ditch, 2 feet deep with 4-1 batters down one side of a 12 foot wide right-of-way and get all the material from the ditch out of there using only a 21F Cat 12. Cut the ditch first and grade all the excavated material up onto the remaining 4 foot wide flat. The reverse the blade and grade it back onto the near batter of the ditch, reverse the blade again and garde it out onto the flat again, Repeat the above process until all the material is out of the ditch and clear of the right-of-way. It took time but I got it done and neatly too.

I might add that this was way before there were even many excavators around, let alone excavators with tilting heads or tilting buckets. (Showing my age again and again I don't care.)

Use what you have to the best of your ability to get the job done as well as you can, the hallmark of a true operator.
 

RocksnRoses

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
770
Location
South Australia
Occupation
Owner operater crushing & contracting business
Hi, Rocksn'Roses.
Oh? And what makes you think you have? I see 43 years of work in your profile. What makes you think that is enough? LOL.

Just quoting from your web page Deas "I was born in Perth 55 years ago", dated April, 2007.

Rn'R.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Never trust a web page.

Hi, Rocksn'Roses.
That April, 2007, date is the date of the last update, not when the site was originally put up. Sorry 'bout that but I forgot to update my age so you're still guessing. LOL.

I WAS 55 when I originally put that site up but it's been a bit more than a year since that happened. LOL. :mad: :(:eek::D
 

GPSGrader

Active Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
40
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Grade Foreman/Operator - 95% Motor Grader
Hello Deas Plant, I've read your posts for some time now and once again you prove not your age, but your knowledge of a motor grader and the practical ways of grading. Always appreciate your posts.
I agree with relatively easy in regards to a flat bottomed ditch. you're approach is basically the same as mine. See, I've been working in a geographical exception to normal dirt operations. Under ideal conditions and if behind a decent backhoe operator, not that bad. All slopes are 2:1 and ditches are, in places, quite deep. In addition, we have many soil types on the jobsite. However, not one passes a suitable material test. It can be very hard to cut but once excavated, never bonds together again. BAD dirt. Its a pure gray color and has sea shells' imprints, only found in the deep cut areas. (old ocean bottom) Bad for traction too. Strange stuff. Anyways, makes steep slopes a hassle sometimes.
I've been doubting my skills lately. Im the lead man on a $50mil. interstate hiway job and expected to know everything. So nobody's telling me much anymore I'm getting the questions. So I come here and read regularly to make sure I'm at least attempting to continue my grading education as much as possible. I'm only 7 years into grading and 4 on a grader. But I'll be damned if I don't do my part to preserve the art of motor grader operation. Its what sets the MG man apart from the rest. I'm sure some of you know what I mean. Have a good day.
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Interesting place to stay away from.

Hi, GPSGrader.
Thank you for your kind comments. I try. Some folks say I'm very trying. LOL.

That site of yours sounds like an interesting place to stay away from if you don't want to end up with all your hair pulled out at the end of each day. LOL.

Now you've got me searching through the 'archives' 'cos I can remember coming up against something similar long ago but can't at the moment remember where or when.

AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gotchya!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hervey Bay, Queensland, Australia, about 1995. Fortunately, it wasn't the whole site. It was a layer that showed up in a few isolated places, seldom more than about 6" thick and more commonly only about 2" thick. Thankfully. It was a silty clay that actually had old shells in it and was very greasy. Like that stuff of yours, it was fairly solid until you disturbed it. Then it was like a mixture of plasticine and vaseline - can you imagine trying to mix those two?

We found that we could mix a little of it with a LOT of sand and some good clay if we rotary hoe-ed to mix it. We quickly abandoned the mixing attempts as being not worth the effort involved and declared a dump area for it in the bottom of an area that had to be filled a fair bit anyway to create a park. With about 5-6 feet of fill over it and no compaction test requirements in that area, it was no longer a problem.

Hope you get yours sorted out that easily.
 

MKTEF

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
1,013
Location
Norway
Occupation
Production manager
This sounds like the same stuff i am hassling in theese days.:confused:
Here its a gry stuff with stones in.
I've got from 50-90% stone in my stuff.

Its hard as rock when it's laying there untouched.
My Pc210 is able to scrape off 1/3 foot for each try.
If its raining, this stuff is just floating, even if it has 75% rock in it.
I try to make a fill/road with it, but it just floats away.
And its not draining water, just holds on water...:mad:

The only solution to get som hold in it is to dry it, but it takes a long time to dry out. Dryes a couple of inches on two weeks...:mad:

I'm working to build a new road, so i found a solution...
Drive it trough the main crusher, so the dirt comes out on the dirtconveyor and the rock get chrushed and can be used as a road base.
Dirt is getting plastered on the side..:)
 

RocksnRoses

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
770
Location
South Australia
Occupation
Owner operater crushing & contracting business
Hi, Rocksn'Roses.
I forgot to update my age so you're still guessing. LOL.

G,day Deas,
No I'm not guessing Deas, age to me is a state of mind. I just sometimes would like to be twenty again with the knowledge I have now. When I saw your post, I couldn't resist replying.

That wasn't you that cut the communications cable on the Gold Coast was it? Do you know anything about it at all, it seems it caused a lot of problems.

Back to the topic: Grader usage

We do all the normal grader things and we do trench in a lot of poly pipe on farms. I guess some of you do too, but this involves digging a trench 200 - 300mm deep with the corner of the blade angled right in behind the front wheel and the other end lifted right up. I always run the drive wheels in the trench to roll the bottom and this leaves a firm flat base for the pipe. The farmer then lays the pipe, and I am talking 32mm water pipe here, in the trench and then we backfill it. If it is in stony country someone will walk along the trench and pick out the bigger rocks to stop them rolling on to the pipe while we are backfilling.

Last year I spent some time on an old 12E on a station in the Northern Territory. My job was to open up about 30km of access tracks for bore trucks to come in and drill as well as opening up about 60km of track between two stations. In a lot of places I had to clear turpentine bush which is sort of a bit like blackberry bush and also soap bush which is spindly an grows 8' - 10' high. There was no front blade so I just had too put the blade down and drive through it and cut it off and when the blade was full swing out to one side and empty it then go back and grade a track. The biggest problem with this was that a lot of the turpentine had been burnt and this makes the sticks very hard. It was nothing to have one or two punctures a day and the tyres on the grader were studded with little sticks in them. The station would leave spare wheels for me along the track but even then I had to do the old Cat grader trick and take one front wheel off to get me back to the ute one day.

Rn'R.
 
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Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Me? Cut a cable? NEVER!!!!!!!

Hi, Rn'R.
Nope. It wasn't me that cut that cable and I'm glad it wasn't. I think that one could run into some bulk bucks. I doubt that bloke had a LOTTA fun yeterday.

I sure had more fun this morning than he would have yesterday. I got to pull apart a largish pile of tree mulch that had caught fire yesterday and been - mostly - extinguished. The people who had stacked it had stacked it up to about 11 - 12 feet high and then never turned it - at all. I was using an air-cab 943 loader and there were a LOT of times that I couldn't see the bucket for the clouds of steam coming out of that mulch. No wonder it caught fire.

I've been rather fortunate in my grader operating. I don't think I have had more than about 3 or 4 genuine punctures in all the grader operating that I've done. I did have a rash of flats on one job with a 17K Cat 12. It turned out that they had fitted tubes into tubless rims. That would have been O.K. if they had also fitted rust bands, but they didn't. The tubeless rims had a rough ridge right around the middle of each rim and these were chewing holes in the inside of the tubes.

After about the third flat in four days, the tire fitter decided to investigate why they were all on the inside of the tube instead of the outside or in the walls. He found the ridge on the rim and ground it off. No more flats on that one. It took about two week to get them all ground off as they went flat.

I've done that wedged/chained-up front wheel trick a whole once. All the rest of my punctures/flats have all been on the drive. One of them was while I was roading an 8T Cat 12 from Bullabulling, just West of Coolgardie, back to Perth, 329 miles. It happened about 40 miles East of Southern Cross. There was NOT a lot of passing traffic around there in those days - 1967. It was fun getting the rim with the flat back on the scarifier lift arm.
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Hi, Rn'R.
I've done that wedged/chained-up front wheel trick a whole once.

Been there as well. Ever had a flat on the front and after taking the wheel bolts out the darn rim was "welded" on and just wouldn't come off? I've placed a block of wood between the frame and the rim and used the lean wheel to break the rim away. Just go easy and it works great.
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Okay, lets try to revive this thread a bit. I'm sure some of the new operators can learn from us if we take the time to explain how we do certain tasks with a grader. The first thing I'm going to talk about is how I construct a V ditch.

keep in mind that everyone has differing methods in doing things, so as I said this is my way as it works for me. To me the purpose of this forum is to learn and that's the main reason I started this thread. I'm not trying to make anyone believe that I'm the best grader operator in the world, because I'm not. I'm still learning..

Okay I will give you this senerio..Road is grubbed off on each side and we are going to use the material from the ditch (good material) and place it on the road. Keep in mind that this is a rural road but with some traffic.

Position your blade so it's at a sharp angle and the toe is just even with the outside of the front right tire (moving the material from the right side first) and make sure that your blade is tilted all the way back, as tilting it forward your material won't roll off the blade. Your first pass is always a "marking pass" as to define your ditch line. I just lift the heel quite high and with the toe into the ditch I make my line. Material rolls in between the tandems.

Next pass I set my blade up the same way with the toe even with the outside of the front tire. The tire follows the ditch line and your blade follows the tire. If you had your blade sticking out beyond the tire it would be hard to control your grader as it would pull you toward the bank, giving you a crooked ditch line. I drift my material on this cut to the outside of my left tandem so that the window is beyond the tires. Have to be careful here as many learning to ditch will have the material coming under the tires causing the grader to rock all over the place creating basically a mess.

Next pass same deal with the toe and cut my ditch deeper. Now I have a good windrow to move up onto the road. Next pass I square my blade up a bit and slide it over (keeping the machine in the same ditch line) and move the windrow closer to the road and creating a longer fore slope. Next I position the grader up on the road and move the windrow towards the center. If you have a large windrow to move it's best to stay on the left of it, extend your blade and take half of it. Then straddle and take the other half. Reason is that if you try to take it all some will spill off the toe and go back into your ditch.

I would keep repeating these procedures and build up right side of the road (just to center) until I had my ditch made. Traffic could still go as one lane is still clear. Repeat this on the opposite side. On the back slope I would angle my blade and place the material into the ditch line then move it onto the road. We always would strive for a good long foreslope and short back slope.

Hope all this makes sense. There this has to be the longest (two fingered) typing that I've ever done.
 
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Dr. Ernie

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
123
Location
Michigian, USA
On the subjuct of flat bottom ditches. I have not tryed this with a motor grader, but it works real well with a scraper, (MT865 and 2 Noble pans) cut the bottom to grade then just cut the slopes in, you basicily spill the dirt back into the ditch to achieve the correct slopes. I have cut miles of ditch this way, and in a very nice and neat, it is also FAST. (I was cutting as much ditch as a Cat325 and a D-5C working together). I Belive that with a grader this would be very easy to do.
 

Northart

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
761
Location
Talkeetna, Alaska
Motor Grader Tasks ?

Motor Grader's do :

1. Finish or rough grading
2. Segregate material
3. Blend or mix material
4. Scarify material
5. Compact repairs, by wheel rolling
6. Snow and Ice removal
7. Brush cutting , with attachment
8. Road shoulder restoration with sod buster
9. Ditch & Slope building with Slopeboard
10. Also used as taxicab on job, when no radios LOL

Just some things that come to mind. :)
 

RocksnRoses

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
770
Location
South Australia
Occupation
Owner operater crushing & contracting business
Motor Grader's do :

1. Finish or rough grading
2. Segregate material
3. Blend or mix material
4. Scarify material
5. Compact repairs, by wheel rolling
6. Snow and Ice removal
7. Brush cutting , with attachment
8. Road shoulder restoration with sod buster
9. Ditch & Slope building with Slopeboard
10. Also used as taxicab on job, when no radios LOL

Just some things that come to mind. :)

11. Clear scrub
12. Pull stuck vehicles and equipment out of bogs
13. Clean out loader buckets with the end of the blade
14. Trenching and backfilling when laying poly pipe

Rn'R.
 

Grader4me

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
1,792
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
Motor Grader's do :

1. Finish or rough grading
2. Segregate material
3. Blend or mix material
4. Scarify material
5. Compact repairs, by wheel rolling
6. Snow and Ice removal
7. Brush cutting , with attachment
8. Road shoulder restoration with sod buster
9. Ditch & Slope building with Slopeboard
10. Also used as taxicab on job, when no radios LOL

Just some things that come to mind. :)

Good to see you back Northart :)
 

Deas Plant

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
1,533
Location
Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
Wot's The BIGG ATTRACTION??????????????????

Hi, Wolf.
I could say it's a grader operator thing and I'd be right but I'll try to explain it in terms that a non-grader operator might be able to understand.

Graders are very versatile and complex machines and are often called on to do work ranging from extremely accurate to very rough, all in the same day. Probably more so than any other machine, with a grader, if you ever stop learning, you're dead from the neck up. And your learning doesn't only cover machine handling and techniques. It also covers working with a very wide range of materials, many of which require fairly precise watering and compacting to achieve the desired results.

Almost every grader job is, or can be, a challenge. Even if you've done the same job 100 times before, there is always the challenge to do it quicker and better and you have the tool to do it, IF you understand that tool. Graders, more than any other type of earthmoving machine, require that you be able to 'THINK' the machine without having to stop to do it. If you don't have a grader mind-set, it is unlikely that you will ever be a REALLY good grader operator. A VERY large part of grader operation is being able to visualise the finished product and work towards it, knowing your pegs - or these days, your GPS, etc. - being able to plan your work, get the steps in the right order, organising the support machines working with you, i.e., water cart(s), roller(s), scrapers, trucks, etc., and controlling the whole process, FROM the grader seat. Hooray for CB radios.

Graders are not for everybody. They are basically finishing machines, probably more of an instrument than a machine in that they have far more ways that they can be set to do a particular job than any other earthmoving machine that I can think of at the moment. This is one of the BIG attractions for me, the infinite variations and choosing the BEST one for a particular job, from lifting out a 4" wide strip of asphalt that has been sawn for a trench to cutting a flat-bottomed V drain between a road shoulder and the toe of a cut batter to spreading and trimming rubberised asphalt in a car park to cutting a 12" wide flat bench 5 feet up a 1.5-in-1 cut batter which forms one side of a V-drain to laying back a 12 foot high batter that you can't get on top of and have only about 12 feet of space along the toe of the batter in which to play.

It takes a LOT of patience and a LOT of understanding of your machine to be a really good grader operator, along with a good eye for levels and grades. IF you have all of those things and you like to be able look at a finished job and say, "I did that," there is a faint chance that you might make a good grader operator.

Personally, I'm NOT one of the REALLY good ones because I haven't spent enough time on them. How-wevver, I have shown myself to be better than quite a few who DID claim to be really good. I'm certainly not in Randy Kreig's class and I doubt I'm in Northart's class but I get by - and I really do enjoy my time on a grader.

Hope this helps.

Northart and RnR, I'm disappointed in you. You missed a few: (LOL.)

15. fire fighting.
16. pipe laying - actually placing pipes in the trench.
17. placing lintels for storm-water pits.
18. foreman's runabout-limousine.
19. clearing heli-pads in long grass or light scrub.
20. pushloading scrapers - I've loaded Cat 619's with a 21F Cat 12 and Cat 660's with an O&K G350, 42 tons and 400 hp.
21. confuse the beejayzuz out of people who don't understand them.
22. ride herd on scraper operators and truck steering wheel attendants - haul road maintenance and fill-cut control.
23. break out material for elevating scrapers.
24 fix other people's/machine's mistakes.

Any others? Let's hear 'em.
 
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RocksnRoses

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
770
Location
South Australia
Occupation
Owner operater crushing & contracting business
RnR, I'm disappointed in you. You missed a few: (LOL.)

Steady Deas, at best I would only class myself as a bush operator grading fencelines, yards and roads for cockies, but there is something about operating a grader that I find quite enjoyable.

Gday all, a couple more.... construction of contour banks in agriculture, I will admit to chasing sheep with one (didnt have anything else!!).. Cheers

I have known wheel loaders to be used to chase sheep as well, on the odd occasion.

Rn'R.
 
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