Hello. SN# RLL06130. Hydraulic fluid puking out Starter as well as inspection hole in flywheel housing. The leak drained the entire hydraulic tank....what a mess. Im assuming its the seal in the hydrostatic drive pump? Any other ideas of what it could be. I just pushed it into my shop and Im preparing to dive into this. Just thought I'd post to see if someone could start steering me in the right direction of what this could be?? Thanks!
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216b skidsteer COMPLETE Hydraulic failure
- Thread starter MiJo
- Start date
Nige
Senior Member
If it has actually failed the shaft seal on the pump the $64k question is why.?
Usually a seal failure is indicative of bigger problems somewhere else that resulted in the seal failing. How about the bearing #24 right next to the seal.?
Usually a seal failure is indicative of bigger problems somewhere else that resulted in the seal failing. How about the bearing #24 right next to the seal.?
Thanks for the diagram. If its not the shaft seal I'm not sure what else it could be? It seems the easiest way to get at this is from the back by removing the engine. Im certainly interested/hoping for any tips from the group on the best way to approach this??
heymccall
Senior Member
I kinda figure "complete hydraulic failure" being brass plugged filters, not a leak, albeit a sizeable one.
And, seal leak on a 16.5 year old machine.
And, seal leak on a 16.5 year old machine.
Nige
Senior Member
I took it to mean that the hydraulic system failed to work because all the oil ran out of the tank through the leaking pump shaft seal.
It is quite likely to be the shaft seal leaking but the question is did something else cause the seal to leak, especially a massive leak like the one that you are describing.? Usually there is something else involved but only disassembly will reveal the cause.
I would agree. Engine & pump out together, split the pump off the engine then disassemble it. If you have never been into anything like that pump before you really need hands-on help from someone who has in my opinion. That’s something like a $10k pump you’re looking at there.
Thanks Nige. Yes I have never been into anything like the pump before and Im certainly a little leary about digging into it. Would it be possible to replace the pump seal if I just left the pump in the machine and just pulled the motor?
Mobiltech
Senior Member
If you are going to inspect the pump when you do this I would suggest just lifting the cab, drain and removed hyd tank , remove lines and pump mounting flange bolts and remove just the pump.
Leave the engine in.
Prepare to replace the nylon coupling also.
If it blew the shaft seal out there is a good chance the pump has high case drain pressure.
Remove the hydraulic filter and inspect it first.
Leave the engine in.
Prepare to replace the nylon coupling also.
If it blew the shaft seal out there is a good chance the pump has high case drain pressure.
Remove the hydraulic filter and inspect it first.
Nige
Senior Member
Don't know TBH. Never done one.
As I have said above the root cause of the problem may NOT be the seal. It may only be a symptom of a much more expensive problem elsewhere in the pump.
Before you go anywhere, as a minimum have you removed the hydraulic oil filter, cut it open and inspected for the presence of "sparklies".?
See this VIDEO, I know it's an engine oil filter but you'll get the idea. Post photos of what you find.
Ok thanks for the video. I have not inspected the hydraulic filter yet. I will get at that tonight and see what I find.
Mobiltech, sorry for my lack of knowledge but could you or someone else summarize what high case drain pressure is?
I really appreciate all your help!
Mobiltech, sorry for my lack of knowledge but could you or someone else summarize what high case drain pressure is?
I really appreciate all your help!
heymccall
Senior Member
"Case drain"
Hydrostatic pumps and motors bypass a small amount of oil from the pressurized components to flood bearings and such in fresh oil. These flooded areas, the "case", need lubrication and, as such, need to "drain" the flooded oil, without restriction, back to the hydraulic tank.
A "drain" restriction will pressurize components not designed for pressure, such as shaft seals.
Hydrostatic pumps and motors bypass a small amount of oil from the pressurized components to flood bearings and such in fresh oil. These flooded areas, the "case", need lubrication and, as such, need to "drain" the flooded oil, without restriction, back to the hydraulic tank.
A "drain" restriction will pressurize components not designed for pressure, such as shaft seals.
Mobiltech
Senior Member
The volume of case drain will also indicate if the pump is failing.
Case drain should be a trickle of oil . If the oil is gushing from the case drain line you likely have a port plate or piston slipper problem.
In your case you can’t really test it if it’s puking oil out the front seal so looking at the filter will be your best bet.
Case drain should be a trickle of oil . If the oil is gushing from the case drain line you likely have a port plate or piston slipper problem.
In your case you can’t really test it if it’s puking oil out the front seal so looking at the filter will be your best bet.
I inspected the hydraulic filter. There are some small silver specks stuck in the paper filter but nothing that looks like it would be a problem. I assume there would be some small specks from normal wear? There was no real indicators within the filter that pointed to any concerns, it looked clean.
I took Mobiltech's advise and pulled out the hydraulic tank and I'm preparing to remove lines and pump mounting flange bolts and just remove the pump. My kid has a hockey tournament this weekend so I will have to put this hold for a couple days.
I took Mobiltech's advise and pulled out the hydraulic tank and I'm preparing to remove lines and pump mounting flange bolts and just remove the pump. My kid has a hockey tournament this weekend so I will have to put this hold for a couple days.
Nige
Senior Member
How about posting some photos of the filter media.? Don't try to remove the particles from the paper, just post them "as-is".
Nige
Senior Member
If that's all there is I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over it.
Yeah it seemed quite clean, so that's a good thing. I'm really hoping its just the shaft seal that has failed. Once I get some time to pull the pump out Im hoping it will be obvious, fingers crossed...and I'm hoping I can replace the seal without getting too involved into that pump.
Nige
Senior Member
Here's the complete parts listing. Unfortunately there is no disassembly & assembly procedure that I can see, a sure sign that the factory don't want "the wrong people" going too deep inside the pump. The upside is that what you have is an "improved" Part Number of pump that was fitted as standard to machines of S/N RLL04482-Up, which includes yours.