4th Year Design Project Research - Wrist Protection for Skid Steer operators [Looking to learn more about the industry]

[DesignerBen]

Hey, I'm a design student in Ottawa, Ontario. I am completing my thesis project on impact protection. My focus is on skid steers and other small equipment. I'm looking for ways to protect the hands and wrists of operators during environmental impact inside the cab.

I'm looking to chat with people in the industry about their experience and possible opportunities for protecting operators. Please reply to this thread if you're interested.

Cheers!

(ps. I know that's an excavator, not a skid steer)

 

[Toddgarage]

Honestly, modern operator cabs are really nice. I’ve pushed the mechanical linkages on an old Case1845c and after a day, you feel it. Don’t get me started on foot pedals… But pilot controls or electric over hydraulic makes joystick work effortless.
Add a suspension seat and climate control, talk about luxury!
If you’re thinking about tendonitis or other repetitive motion injuries, maybe. I’m more worried about the occasional fall while stepping on a muddy track or wet grab bar.
-adjustable arm rest near joysticks.
-good padding on armrests
-button layout for auxiliary with the option for single press operation vs holding the button. (Obviously some attachments should always have a dead man style button that must be held down).

 

[KSSS]

I have wrist issues due to what I believe skid is steer/excavator operation. I plan on gettting it worked on this Winter. I estimate I have around 25K hours on a skid steer over the last 28 years. It is carpel tunnel and some tendon issues I believe. The newer EH machines are much better. The years before that not so much. I am not sure there is anything that can be done beyond the EH controls. I think most OEM's have made the seat/lap bar/control handle interface as comfortable as possible. I think my damage was done with the mechanical/servo controls of years past. It is what it is.

 

[DesignerBen]

Honestly, modern operator cabs are really nice. I’ve pushed the mechanical linkages on an old Case1845c and after a day, you feel it. Don’t get me started on foot pedals… But pilot controls or electric over hydraulic makes joystick work effortless.
Add a suspension seat and climate control, talk about luxury!
If you’re thinking about tendonitis or other repetitive motion injuries, maybe. I’m more worried about the occasional fall while stepping on a muddy track or wet grab bar.
-adjustable arm rest near joysticks.
-good padding on armrests
-button layout for auxiliary with the option for single press operation vs holding the button. (Obviously some attachments should always have a dead man style button that must be held down).

Thank you for the feedback, it really helps. If you had to say what repetitive movements are the most taxing, which ones would it be?

are the bulleted points at the bottom things that could be improved, or are these feature already available?

 

[DesignerBen]

I have wrist issues due to what I believe skid is steer/excavator operation. I plan on gettting it worked on this Winter. I estimate I have around 25K hours on a skid steer over the last 28 years. It is carpel tunnel and some tendon issues I believe. The newer EH machines are much better. The years before that not so much. I am not sure there is anything that can be done beyond the EH controls. I think most OEM's have made the seat/lap bar/control handle interface as comfortable as possible. I think my damage was done with the mechanical/servo controls of years past. It is what it is.

Are there common issues you experience with new controls even with your carpel tunnel? are there specific repeated motions that aggravate it more?

 

[KSSS]

To your bulleted points. I think button layout is extremely important. Its seems small really, but the thousands of repetitive movements take a toll. There are tendons that run under your thumb joint where it meets your hand, both of mine are bad. The hand surgeon is familiar with this type of injury, it is not uncommon. I think this is due to activating thumb switches on skid steers and excavators.

There is tendon that runs over the top of your wrist. My left hand at this tendon where it goes over my wrist is swollen and has been for several years. Even with EH, this condition continues and still hurts.

I think in the same way that people that type/computer work a lot see carpel tunnel issues, I think it is the same situation here. Those repetitive movements made millions of times over years, creates the issues. Perhaps like they have with Ergo keyboards, maybe there is something similar that can be done with control handles. I think the European handles that i have run, seem to be more ergo based than the Rexroth type that are common on NA machines.

If I were doing this paper, I would talk to a hand surgeon that has worked on patients that are HE operators. I think a lot of insight could be gleaned from that perspective.

 

[DesignerBen]

To your bulleted points. I think button layout is extremely important. Its seems small really, but the thousands of repetitive movements take a toll. There are tendons that run under your thumb joint where it meets your hand, both of mine are bad. The hand surgeon is familiar with this type of injury, it is not uncommon. I think this is due to activating thumb switches on skid steers and excavators.

There is tendon that runs over the top of your wrist. My left hand at this tendon where it goes over my wrist is swollen and has been for several years. Even with EH, this condition continues and still hurts.

I think in the same way that people that type/computer work a lot see carpel tunnel issues, I think it is the same situation here. Those repetitive movements made millions of times over years, creates the issues. Perhaps like they have with Ergo keyboards, maybe there is something similar that can be done with control handles. I think the European handles that i have run, seem to be more ergo based than the Rexroth type that are common on NA machines.

If I were doing this paper, I would talk to a hand surgeon that has worked on patients that are HE operators. I think a lot of insight could be gleaned from that perspective.

I really appreciate the insight, thank you so much!

 

[Welder Dave]

I think even with joysticks the type of handle can make a difference. A lot of newer machines have the handles kind of molded to fit your whole hand. I remember seeing a pic. of the joystick controls on the then new 100 series Bucyrus Erie excavators. They were kind of a larger egg shape twisted a little that fit your palm more than your fingers. They seemed odd at first but thinking about it they might have been more comfortable. I think it would be worth doing a study of different styles of hand grips to see which are the least fatiguing after several hours or days of use. You can see the BE controls at 4:15 in the video.

 

[DesignerBen]

I think even with joysticks the type of handle can make a difference. A lot of newer machines have the handles kind of molded to fit your whole hand. I remember seeing a pic. of the joystick controls on the then new 100 series Bucyrus Erie excavators. They were kind of a larger egg shape twisted a little that fit your palm more than your fingers. They seemed odd at first but thinking about it they might have been more comfortable. I think it would be worth doing a study of different styles of hand grips to see which are the least fatiguing after several hours or days of use. You can see the BE controls at 4:15 in the video.

Thank you so much!

 

[cuttin edge]

Not just joysticks and wrists. My elbow gets sore when I drive truck as I rest my hand on top of the shifter. When plowing snow in winter with a loader, the tendons in my index finger get sore, and I actually develop a callus on the side of my middle finger. When I operate a grader with traditional controls, my wrist becomes inflamed from a flat side to side motion. Joystick machines, I find it's the side to side more the the front to back. And my foot can pain from the angle of some travel peddles.

 

[DesignerBen]

Not just joysticks and wrists. My elbow gets sore when I drive truck as I rest my hand on top of the shifter. When plowing snow in winter with a loader, the tendons in my index finger get sore, and I actually develop a callus on the side of my middle finger. When I operate a grader with traditional controls, my wrist becomes inflamed from a flat side to side motion. Joystick machines, I find it's the side to side more the the front to back. And my foot can pain from the angle of some travel peddles.

This is a huge help, thank you

 

[Welder Dave]

Another thing that makes a huge difference is a good seat. Most new equipment has pretty good seats but some older equipment used whatever to sit on. Ride control or some kind of suspension helps a lot too. My legs get pretty stiff from foot pedal controls especially if I haven't been in my skid steer for a while and use it for several hours.

 

[chidog]

I don't have any skid steer time at all. But lots of dozer and excavator time.
At least on excavator controls up to my last new ones ran which would have been around the 2004 or so area, were definitely better than the real old foot plus throw stuff. I always wanted the controls to be adjustable in throw distance, and load feel, for an excavator, I wanted the throw equivalent to a touchy helicopter cyclic stick, where moving it a 1/4 inch is considered drastic movement. The throw was way too much for being comfortable. Then there are the stupid tight springs or what ever in the blade lift, tilt, and angle control of the smaller cat dozers, all this is probably part of why I suffer wrist problems now, along with twisting tools etc. Its the controls them selves that are the big problem. I think having some sort of adjust-ability to the operator controls would be a huge benefit, different operators will what different feel and stick movement than others. I always wanted when sitting in an excavator to be able to rest both arms and hands and only move the sticks a very small amount, especially in loading trucks.
Sounds like your doing a form of UX design? "User Experience"
Oh and there are times when a lot of operator stick throw is needed, times when you have to be careful in your movements, like hoisting and maneuvering, if the throw is too close then it would be easy to mess up. So being adjustable is the key for controls in all types of machinery.
I'm so glad the old cat dozer shoulder buster blade lever was just a left over when I started operating.
I wonder how many shoulders that ruined?

 

[Jimothy]

We got a couple of bigger operators, tall and heavy. In smaller equipment it’s just not possible for those guys to be comfortable. I’m only 6’6 and If I adjust my seat properly my head will hit the ceiling of the cab and often times my legs are too long to fit around certain controls or steering wheels.

I don’t think there is anything that can be done from an engineering stand point other then limiting movement.

Sometimes more movement just ends up being more intuitive and or productive anyway. If I can be more productive I have more time to rest potentially get up and stretch.

When your talking about skidsteers visibility is often very poor meaning lots of looking around and checking for hazards improving visibility on machines with large and frequent blind spots will help eliminate turning necks twisting back leaning forward.

One last note I can add, I have played a lot of video games in my life. Now that I’m older I cannot physically press buttons as fast as I could when I was younger my joints will fail often times heat for joints will help with managing pain so heated controls for hands maybe is a thing or wearing specialized operator gloves maybe I will invent those haha.

 

[IceHole]

I have wrist issues due to what I believe skid is steer/excavator operation. I plan on gettting it worked on this Winter. I estimate I have around 25K hours on a skid steer over the last 28 years. It is carpel tunnel and some tendon issues I believe. The newer EH machines are much better. The years before that not so much. I am not sure there is anything that can be done beyond the EH controls. I think most OEM's have made the seat/lap bar/control handle interface as comfortable as possible. I think my damage was done with the mechanical/servo controls of years past. It is what it is.

I prefer a normal control skid steer over the ISO or H. Though my toes start hurting after a while.

My hands go numb with joysticks. Was supposed to get surgery, but then i found out it's 4-6+ weeks recovery.

Yeah... who had that much time to not be working?!!