580C brake rebuild questions

[DirtyHoe]

I've spent a few hours reading on HEF and other online forums about rebuilding the brakes on a 580C. It looks like I need to tear into this from one end to the other. I looked in the manual and couldn't find any specifications on the linings for both the links and the discs. What is the thickness of the linings brand new? What the minimum thickness or distance to rivets to force a replacement?

I think my master cylinder is past the rebuild stage...
Steve

 

[DirtyHoe]

Does anyone know what the thickness of the lining and disk should be on a new brake pad set? I'm trying to decide if I can reuse or need to replace them.

Can the bearing carrier(supports the brake drum cross shaft) on both sides be removed with the transaxle still on the machine? I need to replace the leaky oil seals and the shafts are rusty. I read that you should do one side at a time with the brakes on the opposite side to keep the ring gear assembly from moving out of position. After reading several posts online, it's not clear if the carriers can be removed while on the machine.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Coy Lancaster]

I'm not sure on the thickness of the brake linings I always just replace with oem kits.
The brake backing plates can be removed without removing the transaxle, there is a counter sunk screw in the plate ,if it wasn't left out on previous repairs. It'll be a philipshead screw you'll need a impact wrench to remove. Of course it goes without saying you should drain transaxle about now if you haven't already. You can use pry bars to remove the side plates be mindful of the shims between the plate and transaxle housing. You might have to start with a chisel where your weep hole is to get them started. Be safe and have fun.

 

[franklin2]

I heard you mention leaky seals. If the oil has gotten on the brake linings, you need to replace them no matter how good or thick they look. No matter how much brake cleaner you use, you cannot get the oil that is soaked in the linings out completely, and as you use the machine and the linings get hot, the oil will make it's way out of the linings and make them gummy. They will then tend to stick and hang up.

 

[DirtyHoe]

Dale at www.e-backhoeparts.com was kind enough to measure brand new linings for me. New band linings are 0.199" thick and new disc & drum linings 0.184" thick.
My pads are not oil soaked at all. Just the cavity in the casting(below the seals) have some grime and oil in them. My bands are only .04 away from the rivets so I will order new bands. The disk and drum are in decent shape with about .170 thickness left. My plan is to sandblast the parts and shoot some epoxy primer on the bare steel. I'll leave the paint off the wear areas.

Steve

 

[DirtyHoe]

It looks like the left brake was working most of the time. Or maybe the prior owners didn't use both brakes. After sandblasting the housing I noticed the wear area from the brake lining had some grooves and was worn down about .03 from the original surface. So I decided to machine the brake area and also took an equal amount off of the flange. By keeping it equal I maintained the original factory specification which is about 2.030" from the flange to the braking surface. If you don't do this the drum and disk assembly can over-expand causing the brakes to lock-up.
Back in the day Case machined these on a large lathe with a 4-jaw chuck. My lathe isn't big enough to swing this size of a part, so I did it on the milling machine. It added an extra step because the casting is not flat on the outside. I only took off about .02" to get it flat. I then flipped it over and bolted and clamped it to the table. I used a dial indicator to make sure I did not warp the flange. The rest was easy. I used a large carbide insert cutter and re-machined the surfaces.

Steve

 

[outlawspeeder]

Looks like I am doing this now. I have 0 brakes on a 580C I just bought. I haven't even looked at those parts. Please keep the information and photos coming.

 

[DirtyHoe]

Does anyone know what parts below get lubed and what should stay dry on the differential lock assembly? If it needs to be lubed what type should be used? All the manual says is to assemble all the parts and install the unit. Not sure how much brake dust gets into this assembly. I don't want to make a greasy abrasive paste. It was seized when I took it apart.
I replaced the cover bushing with a lube-free polymer bushing.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[outlawspeeder]

I put grease (red bearing grease) on the lever fingers and inside of the collar. I also put some on the shaft so it would not lock up to the cover bushing (x2). I put a light coat on the inside of the cover to stop the rust.

I couldn't get the outer spring cleaned up and working. Means I have to be gentle engaging the clutch. If yours is freed I would luge it too.

 

[Coy Lancaster]

Putting grease or never seize on the shaft is a good idea but use either sparingly. Also remember never to engage your diff lock with wheels turning, bad things happen then.

 

[DirtyHoe]

Thanks for the tips. I've read the horror stories of engaging the lock under power. Some disconnect it for that reason. I really need 4 wheel drive, so I will be using the differential lock at times. I'm on a slope that has slick clay when wet.

The lever fingers and collars are probably the biggest wear areas. What would last longer on this area, moly grease, red grease, or never seize?

Steve

 

[Coy Lancaster]

I’d molly on them it’s thicker

 

[outlawspeeder]

Also remember never to engage your diff lock with wheels turning, bad things happen then.

I didn't know that. Thank You My little Ford 1310 you can bang that diff lock any time.

 

[Coy Lancaster]

The 580’s have a tendency to snap the cross shaft in the ring gear.

 

[DirtyHoe]

How does this seal(#25) mount in the picture? Mine were missing including one bracket from the other side of the machine. My service manual is a photocopy and it doesn't have any clear pictures. Also, I went to the wrecking yard and it was mounted under the bracket and turned upside down. That makes more sense because the bracket would hold the seal down. The seal would cover the hole better from debris. In the picture, the bracket would not be doing anything.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[stinky64]

seal lives nipple up,rides on slave piston to keep grime out of cover...don' t know what that #26 bracket is..not in my parts manual or on my machine...

 

[Tinkerer]

Thanks for the tips. I've read the horror stories of engaging the lock under power. Some disconnect it for that reason. I really need 4 wheel drive, so I will be using the differential lock at times. I'm on a slope that has slick clay when wet.
Steve

It doesn't matter what kind of machine it is in regards to differential locks. One thing they all have in common is that great harm occurs when the differential lock is engaged when turning on dry surfaces.
It is quite easy to forget to disengage it after using it.

 

[DirtyHoe]

I got around to installing the brake lining on the drum. I found the rivet tool online from Hanson Rivet and Supply Co. The OD was a little too big to reach in the counterbore on the drum so I turned it down on the lathe. I then machined an adaptor to fit it to the arbor press. I also machined a small disk to support the rivet head. The press is a smaller 2-ton size and Hanson Rivet said it would take about 3,500 pounds of force to form the tubular rivet.

This is the first time I've ever riveted a brake lining and it did not go as planned. Take a look at the pictures as I have a few cracks in the lining. Not sure what caused this. Too much pressure? Maybe the disk that supports the rivet is too big in diameter? The disk is not tight in the lining. I also followed the riveting pattern as specified in the manual. I sandblasted and primed the drum and hit it with a file to make sure there were no high spots on it. The drum looked pretty flat, but I did not check to make sure it is dead flat. The drilled holes are the right size for the rivet diameter.

Do I run it as is or should I start over?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[stinky64]

That sucks !! after so much prep and tooling adjustment, I think ya got too much squish and they cracked...before I replaced mine they were stress cracked in a similar fashion and didn't chip off ,but do you want to take that chance???I did mine with an air hammer w/trailer door rivet bit on lowest setting,so with that fancy operation you got 2nd time should be a piece of cake....just don't use so much squish...orrr run it ,not so hard to redo in the spring..only thing I'd be concerned about is damaging drum or housing....

 

[DirtyHoe]

I need a favor. I would appreciate if a 580C owner could measure the spring limiting pin that goes inside the spring of the self adjusting brake assembly. It's part number A7975. It's a 5/16 diameter pin, but I need the length.

I don't think mine is original. It seems too long. Looking at the pictures in the manual it causes my cam to be rotated at a much different angle.

Thanks for the help,

Steve