phil, could not wait until tomorrow to get it out and with the countershaft gear out, no problem. it does seem strange that my case manual would not mention that little point. in any case i did check the torque tube area where the sealing rings sit and there i a tiny indentation where they sit[maybe .001] . and the question now is what if anything can be done with these. i have not really gone over the discs but externally they look not bad. what should the approximate thickness be sam
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
580ck shuttle/converter
- Thread starter samk
- Start date
Ruffasacob
Member
Good thread guys. I have a 1967 580 CK gas engine with many issues. I'm following along with interest.
Phil
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,067
- Location
- Southeastern Ontario
- Occupation
- retired operator and mechanic
Ruffa,
Not too many gas hoes left out there.
Sam,
I don't have a dimension on disc thickness or assembled pack thickness. Look at the lines on the lining for wear, it's possible a transmission shop could advise you, or compare with a new one. As far as I know, its not a critical dimension on these clutch packs. Look for warped or discolored plates. I have some new Twin Disc plates but they are probably different.
Wear in the torque tube housing hole sounds minimal. Remove the 3 sealing rings and check them for side wear, there will be a lip if there is, the middle one will be worn on both sides. Keep them in the same order and rotation if you intend to reuse them. Some come out looking as new, others I've seen are worn bad. The rings are clipped together when installed. The ring can be clipped back together and pushed into the torque tube exactly where it ran before. Note if the gap in the hook is closed or if there is still room to allow for wear before the ring will no longer open any more. More than likely you will end up replacing them and doing this test with the new rings. I believe they were $100 for the set of 3 from Case.
Do you have the Rockwell clutch pack disassembly instructions in your book? Phil
Not too many gas hoes left out there.
Sam,
I don't have a dimension on disc thickness or assembled pack thickness. Look at the lines on the lining for wear, it's possible a transmission shop could advise you, or compare with a new one. As far as I know, its not a critical dimension on these clutch packs. Look for warped or discolored plates. I have some new Twin Disc plates but they are probably different.
Wear in the torque tube housing hole sounds minimal. Remove the 3 sealing rings and check them for side wear, there will be a lip if there is, the middle one will be worn on both sides. Keep them in the same order and rotation if you intend to reuse them. Some come out looking as new, others I've seen are worn bad. The rings are clipped together when installed. The ring can be clipped back together and pushed into the torque tube exactly where it ran before. Note if the gap in the hook is closed or if there is still room to allow for wear before the ring will no longer open any more. More than likely you will end up replacing them and doing this test with the new rings. I believe they were $100 for the set of 3 from Case.
Do you have the Rockwell clutch pack disassembly instructions in your book? Phil
yes phil , i do have the instructions for the disassembly and assembly of the shuttle and am raking it apart today to chek on what i may need. the slight grooves in the torque tube worry me some but i do not have enough experience to know if something should be done or even what as i dread the thought of pulling the entire thing apart having it bored and re-sleeved. i was very surprised to find that the pickup screen was again partially clogged as the sump ares were spotless when i last had it apart but it appears to be a mixture of silicon and possibly the remains of what may have been part of a shop rag. i will keep you posted of progress sam
Phil
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,067
- Location
- Southeastern Ontario
- Occupation
- retired operator and mechanic
Sam,
I meant to tell you that all the metal sealing rings used throughout the shuttle assembly, should be carefully checked in the bore they fit in. Remove each one and place it in the bore where it normally travels after clipping the ends together. Note if the ring maintains an outward pressure in the bore or if the 'ends' of the ring, touch. Some service manuals suggest looking at the gap between the clips and if the ring gap is more than 1/2 way to closing, replace the ring or housing or both. As long as there is a portion of the gap left you will be okay for a time. Make sure all the bores are polished to minimize scratch damage. Make sure the spacers with the internal teeth, one on each end, have a snap ring on each side. If this is not done correctly the shuttle will not work at all, don't ask how I know.
Note that only the 2 thrust washers(on either side of the thrust bearing), on the forward end, are 1/8 thick, the other 4 are 1/16" thick. The sealing ring with the square cross-section should be greased before installing and can't be removed without damage unless the groove is filled. The accelerator pistons must be free to slide.
Air test after you slide the shuttle back in the torque tube. The adaptor plate must be removed and then identify the 2 holes you blow through before sliding the shuttle in. Use oil in the holes if needed and at least 100 psi. I consider the air test a must, if you can get a good seal on the shaft, it can be done on the bench also.
Do not let the rear drum slide to the rear at any time during the assembly of the torque tube to the transmission case. Check for rear drum end play, as the book states, only after the housings touch and during bolt tightening. Good luck, Phil
I meant to tell you that all the metal sealing rings used throughout the shuttle assembly, should be carefully checked in the bore they fit in. Remove each one and place it in the bore where it normally travels after clipping the ends together. Note if the ring maintains an outward pressure in the bore or if the 'ends' of the ring, touch. Some service manuals suggest looking at the gap between the clips and if the ring gap is more than 1/2 way to closing, replace the ring or housing or both. As long as there is a portion of the gap left you will be okay for a time. Make sure all the bores are polished to minimize scratch damage. Make sure the spacers with the internal teeth, one on each end, have a snap ring on each side. If this is not done correctly the shuttle will not work at all, don't ask how I know.
Note that only the 2 thrust washers(on either side of the thrust bearing), on the forward end, are 1/8 thick, the other 4 are 1/16" thick. The sealing ring with the square cross-section should be greased before installing and can't be removed without damage unless the groove is filled. The accelerator pistons must be free to slide.
Air test after you slide the shuttle back in the torque tube. The adaptor plate must be removed and then identify the 2 holes you blow through before sliding the shuttle in. Use oil in the holes if needed and at least 100 psi. I consider the air test a must, if you can get a good seal on the shaft, it can be done on the bench also.
Do not let the rear drum slide to the rear at any time during the assembly of the torque tube to the transmission case. Check for rear drum end play, as the book states, only after the housings touch and during bolt tightening. Good luck, Phil
thanks for the info but i had the factory manual plus i took pictures of each of the disassemly steps and they were invaluable as it is amazing how some steps seem so straightforward at disassembly but are not all that clear 2 weeks down the road sam
well phil, got it together today and got it fired[still alot to hook up] converter pressure is at about 32 drops momentarily when engaging the shuttle and then returns almost imediately to 32. shuttle pressure after idling for 10 minutes sits at 175 for both forward or reverse. i wll have the rest hooked up in a day or so and will see how it performs when working. i will keep you posted sam
well phil, sorry to be so long getting back to you , but with that god-awful winter almost upon us things have been busy. now back to the backhoe since i rebuilt the shuttle it has been running and pushing like a bear. thank you once again for all of your help sAM
Phil
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,067
- Location
- Southeastern Ontario
- Occupation
- retired operator and mechanic
Your welcome Sam. I'm sure she will do lots of work for you.
Phil
Phild2r
Well-Known Member
Your welcome Sam. I'm sure she will do lots of work for you.
Phil & company... after reading this thread, I really realise what kind of deep muck (mechanically speaking) I am in. The most complicated thing I've ever rebuilt was the head on my water softener.
Recently dived in & bought a 1973 580B (power shuttle) which, as it turns out, was in worse shape than I realised. The previous owner assured me that it had a refresh motor with less than 20 hours on it... but I now realise, after seeing the oil leaking from the forward bell housing, that it was likely an in-frame rebuild that didn't get to the bottm end... so I'm guessing rear main seal.
So it looks like the machine will have to be split to deal with the leak. Could you give me a list of what should be done/checked while the machine is apart? Like the rest of the 580's here, this puppy doesn't exactly get up & go. I'm dealing with the leaky hydraulic cylinders one by one and the wiring is, well... let's notgo there just yet.
If I get this thing apart I should probably make it worthwhile.
What are my best options for torque converter/ clutch rebuild? Are there places locally... Belleville/ Kingston area... that rebuild this stuff? Fwiw... just got some front end parts from the local Case dealer and I feel like I've been bent over the work bench and violated.
You don't do this sort of thing (shuttle rebuild, etc) by any chance, do you?
regards...d2r
alrman
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2009
- Messages
- 3,316
- Location
- QLD Australia
- Occupation
- Diesel Fitter;Small Business Owner;Cleaner
d2r - Phil is AWOL - he hasn't been here for a while & considering we are all addicted to HEF it seems strange.......we're all hoping everything is OK with him. He sure is missed, he seems to enjoy the challenges presented by early 580's.
You need to split the tractor to be able to repair the rear main. A daunting job if you have never done one or seen one before. They are not too difficult to do if you use some common sense. I would sugest you find a service manual to guide you through your repairs. Seems to be some free downloads around for these early tractors - bit risky though.....
Regards your shuttle - you best try to find a mechanic with a case background. You wont be able to just take it anywhere to be fixed (after you get it out) - even Case dealers wont have the staff who have probably ever seen one. After market sources for those early models (CK,B trans shuttle parts) are non existent here, I'm guessing the same there. I've always used OE.
You need to split the tractor to be able to repair the rear main. A daunting job if you have never done one or seen one before. They are not too difficult to do if you use some common sense. I would sugest you find a service manual to guide you through your repairs. Seems to be some free downloads around for these early tractors - bit risky though.....
Regards your shuttle - you best try to find a mechanic with a case background. You wont be able to just take it anywhere to be fixed (after you get it out) - even Case dealers wont have the staff who have probably ever seen one. After market sources for those early models (CK,B trans shuttle parts) are non existent here, I'm guessing the same there. I've always used OE.
d2r
Well-Known Member
Really sorry to hear that... sounds like the kind of guy... you were stranded on that deserted island, he'd be everybody's first pick for a wingman.
Fortunately, my wife's uncle is a kind of mechanical savant... he's been restoring motorcycles & cars since he could shave... and has an amazing workshop to boot. Figure I could maybe get him to help me rebuild some stuff if I can yank it out and show up weeping on his doorstep.
Probably should have popped for a newer machine, but the idea of resurrecting some "Old Iron" just had this appeal. I guess it's the Irish in me. Figured I was gonna suddenly grow me an autocad-like brain & magic hands, but it's a little more intimidating than I thought.
Maybe should've spent less time around computers and more around wrenches, welding equipment and milling machines. C'est la vie, huh?
Really love to hear from anyone who's been down this road.
sleepyhollow
Member
Hello folks, Im new here and having some trouble with my 580B. For some reason it is blowing transmission fluid out of the shuttle valve breather. Any ideas on this???????????
blowing transmission fluid
Is this a reservoir breather? Is it overfilled? If not it either has an internal leak or something is over pressurizing that area.
The 580B is different then my older 580ck which has a hydraulic reverser. On mine if you had blow-by in the engine and/or a leaky rear main crank seal it could put engine oil into to the reverser cavity. Or like I had, get coolant from a failed transcooler/radiator into the trans. That would be my guess! If its hot it could steam out of the trans breather.
****
Is this a reservoir breather? Is it overfilled? If not it either has an internal leak or something is over pressurizing that area.
The 580B is different then my older 580ck which has a hydraulic reverser. On mine if you had blow-by in the engine and/or a leaky rear main crank seal it could put engine oil into to the reverser cavity. Or like I had, get coolant from a failed transcooler/radiator into the trans. That would be my guess! If its hot it could steam out of the trans breather.
****
sleepyhollow
Member
Thankyou. This is the same shuttle-converter/control that phil posted a scymatic of on page 1 of this thread. It is blowing oil by the quart. I ran it about 3-4 minutes and it blew out over a gallon
packratc
Senior Member
Sleepyhollow, I guess I'm pretty much in the same boat. Have you emptied the torque tube to see if youhad it over filled? I think I'll drain mine completly and measure what I put back in to insure that it isn't over filled. Packratc