580e breaks

[wrecd]

evening fellas

i searched the forums but couldn't find a answer to my question, i apologize if this has been answered before.

how well should the breaks work on a backhoe? should you be able to stop them easily if they are in gear like an automatic car? should i be putting it in neutral to stop?

the breaks on my hoe seem weak, i can stop it while it's in gear but i have to press the break petal real hard.

sorry for the noob question

 

[alrman]

You should be able to lock wheels up quite easily.
There are different brakes on E - dry & wet.
If your dry brakes are wet with oil they wont work real good. If your wet brakes are in the wrong oil they wont work real good.
Wet brakes started at transmission ser no 16276842 - hope your tag is still there.....
We need to know what you have.

 

[Goose]

A quick way to tell if the brakes on a 580E are wet or dry is the type of parkbrake set up. The dry brake set up uses the serv9ice brakes for the parkbrake manually pulling the brake levers with the cable. The wet brake machines have an external disc and rotor set up on the front of the transaxle. or the drop box if it is a 4X4.

 

[alrman]

Your pretty well right Goose, but there are a few transaxles around with the disc park brake & still using dry brakes - been caught by one before.
The disc park brake started at trans ser no 16270319 & wet brakes at 16276842.

 

[gggraham]

Alrman: I've even seen the same too, but case always does have some odd ducks out there. We just sold a 590SM series 3 with no pilot and a powershift transmission. Although powershift was only offered in the 590SM + series 3.

 

[wrecd]

the tag was damaged pretty bad, the only numbers i could read on it were 29895 but i couldn't tell if those were the last or first numbers.

there was another number that was cast into the side, it was A179055 and JIG REVG.

its a 1986 580se if that helps at all.

i took some pictures but they didn't turn out as well as i hoped.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/aarongr/DSC00125.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/aarongr/DSC00126.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/aarongr/DSC00127.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/aarongr/DSC00128.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/aarongr/DSC00129.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b40/aarongr/DSC00131.jpg

i'm hoping it's an easy fix, it sure would be nice to be able to stop easily

thanks for the help

 

[alrman]

Your right about those pictures - they don't shed much light on the subject.
There is another way to find out if brakes are dry or wet.
Check the RHS brake actuating cylinder. It is held in with 2 x bolts & clamps.
On the dry brake models one of the bolts is a fitting with a vent hose on it - ITEM 31
If you don't have this hose, you have a wet brake model.

 

[wrecd]

thanks for all the help guys. that last picture you posted was a big help alrman.

im 99% sure it has wet breaks. do you guys think i should just change the fluid to see if that fixes the breaks?

is there any alternative oil i could use that Tractor Supply would have in stock? there aren't any Case dealerships near me. i saw some oil part# B17778 on www.colemanequip.com for $105.99. is that a normal price for 5 gallons? seem expensive to me.

 

[alrman]

not sure on oil pricing in US - here in Aus. the Case wet brake oil is alot more expensive, last time I bought around $150 - 20lt (4gal)
Dare I say it ...... some owners here used CAT oil (shhhhh) in their Case...
Here, the early 428 used a ford / new holland wet brake oil ( Probably still do )
Ring the local oil suppliers & ask what they have to offer & post it, someone here will help - maybe a Cat dealer nearby, see what they have to offer?

 

[Rocketsled]

I know this is an old thread but this is good info for any newbies. The 580e manual calls for Case Fluid #B17632, but when I went to the dealer they said it was discontinued and the replacement is CNH brand #B17778 and the bucket says it is 80w-140. Also has the words Akcela and Ambra on it. Not sure if those are related brands or what. Paid $154 for 5 gallons. Manual says 16 quarts for PIN# 17032504 and later or 20 quarts for the earlier models. Mine took the full 5 gallons to hit full. Ok, maybe just a tick over full. Seems to work fine and brakes are strong but do chatter a tiny bit sometimes when creeping. Hope my dealer wasn't F.o.S.. Anyone have any experience with this? I know there are plenty of guys with Super E's out there. What are you running for fluids all around?

 

[bowen]

Yours must have dry brakes, if you drained out the thick gear oil.
The serial number is underneath.
If you have wet brakes the fluid has to be the other fluid. (thin)

 

[Rocketsled]

Yours must have dry brakes, if you drained out the thick gear oil.
The serial number is underneath.
If you have wet brakes the fluid has to be the other fluid. (thin)

bowen...not sure if your post was even directed at me but I wish you would clarify with some #'s. I have a 1986 Case 580 Super E and she definitely has wet brakes for sure. I just double checked the manual...it calls for same fluid for all 580 Super E models- Case Gear Lubricant-B17632
HOWEVER ... The earlier models (which I believe are the dry brake models) before PIN#17032504 have two alternates listed.
1. Case FDL fluid
or
2. (API-GLI-5) SAE 85W-140

For PIN #17032504 and after there is no alternate listed. Only a reference to a warning about the brakes being less affective if the wrong fluid is used.

Do you have a Super E? What are you putting in the transaxel?

 

[syndy]

I know this is an old thread but this is good info for any newbies. The 580e manual calls for Case Fluid #B17632, but when I went to the dealer they said it was discontinued and the replacement is CNH brand #B17778 and the bucket says it is 80w-140. Also has the words Akcela and Ambra on it. Not sure if those are related brands or what. Paid $154 for 5 gallons. Manual says 16 quarts for PIN# 17032504 and later or 20 quarts for the earlier models. Mine took the full 5 gallons to hit full. Ok, maybe just a tick over full. Seems to work fine and brakes are strong but do chatter a tiny bit sometimes when creeping. Hope my dealer wasn't F.o.S.. Anyone have any experience with this? I know there are plenty of guys with Super E's out there. What are you running for fluids all around?

I have a 83-84 SE with dry brakes and use just plain old 90WT gear oil. The B17778 would do fine in mine but you do have wet brakes if it is a later model and it will not work in yours. I had an oil seal leak and it got on my disk and the brakes were gone on one wheel. I would check to see exactly what serial number Case you have and follow the above suggestions to see if you have wet or dry brakes. My guess is that you have an older model and dry brakes.

I just had mine apart a couple of months ago and the right brake is still not right. Seems like trying to use the old disk may not have been a good idea. The good thing, I can remove one brake in about 15 min now.

 

[bowen]

I have a 1986 Case 580 Super E and she definitely has wet brakes for sure. I just double checked the manual...it calls for same fluid for all 580 Super E models- Case Gear Lubricant-B17632
HOWEVER ... The earlier models (which I believe are the dry brake models) before PIN#17032504 have two alternates listed.
1. Case FDL fluid
or
2. (API-GLI-5) SAE 85W-140

Do you have a Super E? What are you putting in the transaxel?

Yes I have a 580SE with the external park brake disc but I have DRY brakes and I use standard 85W-140 gear oil.
I suspect you have dry brakes also. You need to find the serial number plate on the transaxle.
(IF you have WET brakes you put the wrong fluid in and it will damage the brakes. You need the FDL fluid.)
This has been a point for lots of discussion on the Super E: it's not easy to tell if you have wet or dry.
As I understand it the dry brake system would eventually leak into the brakes via a bad seal like some have,
so they started the wet brakes to simply let the brake run in the fluid. But they changed the fluid to the more expensive FDL

I have not worked on the brakes yet.
Sydney:
15 minutes to get into the brake pads I can't do anything in 15 minutes...

 

[syndy]

bowen, I'll be 73 next month and getting anything done in 15 minutes is getting difficult. However after pulling up the floor in my hoe and finding it did me no good to work on the brakes, I discovered it's all about using the right wrench to remove the long cover bolts. The brake disk are different in the wet brake system but I would guess they might work with any oil at least for a while.

My brake system, (dry) is very simple, sort of like the clutch plate on a standard shift car. Get it wet with oil and it slips. I think I would still rather have the dry brakes over the wet. One good reason is that I can open mine up to work on without having to drain oil.

 

[syndy]

I think one of the best ways to see if you have dry brakes is to look at the cover parts and as far as I know the configuration in the photo is only on dry brakes.

 

[Rocketsled]

Bowen... man you really got me worked up there for a second. Was about to go to the dealer and rip him a new one but decided to double check your info first. And glad I did as it saved me a bit of shame. You are correct that there is a lot of "Discussion" going on about this topic and that is why I am trying to put this to rest once and for all. It is no wonder there is so much head scratching going on when you say that you SUSPECT I have dry brakes when I keep telling you they are wet for sure. And then you go on to say that if I do have wet brakes that I need the FDL fluid. As I already said, according to the manual, FDL is an alternate for DRY BRAKES ONLY! NOT FOR WET BRAKES! I just located S/N for transaxel. It is 16297458 which again indicates I have WET brakes. I am having NO braking trouble. They work good and strong. As I said in my first post, the dealer told me the B17632 is DISCONTINUED and the B17778 is it's replacement. I just went to the official case parts store and typed in the part #s for both oils. B17632 is not found. B17778 is found and is described as "B17778 is a replacement part for the obsolete part(s) B17632."
So according to what I have found, and confirmed, these are the factory recommended oils for the 580 SUPER E 4-spd transaxel:

DRY BRAKES
1. B17632(Obsolete) Now is B17778
2. Case FDL
3. (API-GLI-5) SAE 85W-140

WET BRAKES
1. B17632(Obsolete) Now is B17778 (Only factory recommended oil for wet brakes)

Hopefully now we can put this subject to rest. Wish we could post this as a Sticky Note!

 

[bowen]

You are correct that there is a lot of "Discussion" going on about this topic... I just located S/N for transaxle. It is 16297458 which again indicates I have WET brakes.

Per Alrman's post then you do indeed have wet brakes.
Mine is S/N 16274426 and was made in 1985. So mine is in that gray area where dry brakes were still being used.
So far as I know now and 90 weight gear oil from Tractor Supply or wherever is OK for mine.
I found the B17778 as a New Holland 85W-140 and assumed this was standard gear oil; maybe I am wrong about this.
Per your post the dry AND wet brake system can now use the B17778.:eek2 ?

I thought the other oil was thinner, but I may be wrong about this.
Maybe I am still confused.

 

[Rocketsled]

Per Alrman's post then you do indeed have wet brakes.
Mine is S/N 16274426 and was made in 1985. So mine is in that gray area where dry brakes were still being used.
So far as I know now and 90 weight gear oil from Tractor Supply or wherever is OK for mine.
I found the B17778 as a New Holland 85W-140 and assumed this was standard gear oil; maybe I am wrong about this.
Per your post the dry AND wet brake system can now use the B17778.:eek2 ?

I thought the other oil was thinner, but I may be wrong about this.
Maybe I am still confused.

Oh man...The B17778 IS fairly thin for tractor gear oil in my opinion. I believe you are correct that CNH stands for "CASE NEW HOLLAND" but the weight/viscosity is 80w-140. So a little thinner than you thought. Written right there on the front of the 5 gallon bucket. And yes it is recommended for BOTH WET and DRY setups just as the oil it replaced-B17632
If you think I am wrong then please tell me what YOU THINK the factory recommends for WET BRAKE transaxels....and don't tell me FDL...we already went there. I should have posted these earlier. Please read bucket.