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583K misfire

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
Hey,

Got a 583K pipelayer with a D342 engine in it. It has a mis and so far haven’t figured out why. Pulled the nozzles on cylinders 1,2&6 because they were the coldest 3 exhaust temps as shot with a temperature gun on the manifold. Put in 3 known good nozzles and no change. Engine still has a stumble/stutter to it. At one point #1 was 100C cooler than #5, which was 270C after driving it a bit. The other 2 are 30-40C cooler.

Maybe 2&6 aren’t an issue, but pretty sure #1 is having some greif.

Without getting to far into this ridiculous long story, this engine was “procured” in a machine that was bought for parts, but was fully functional at time of purchase. I found the fuel system primer pump full of brown rusty looking “schmoo”
Filter bowl didn’t have a screen installed and was also full of said “schmoo”. Fuel filters were a bit better but by no means did their contents look like clean diesel fuel. When I first fired it up and was cracking fuel lines, #1 let out some of the infamous “schmoo”, then quickly cleared up to clean fuel, but obviously the crap made it through out the entire system.

So now Im wondering what to do next. Today, i got a boroscope in the cylinder on #1, and its not looking so awesome. Definitely had rust going on in there and there is little to no x hatch. Could compression be low enough to not fire the cylinder? One would think blow by would be through the roof if that was the case, which I guess I didn’t look that closely at but didn’t see obvious smoke or oil vapour billowing from that area.

How can I confirm its a fuel issue or a compression issue or what?

Should I try and make a compression tester adapter and get a reading of that cylinder’s compression?

When I loosen the fuel line on the nozzle, fuel is squirting all over, but doesn’t seem to make a big difference in sound.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,592
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
If u have an extra injector, that would make a good adapter..
Simply remove the guts and cut the tip back until u get to 1 large hole in the center.
U still need a gauge.. and a line that will connect the inj to the gauge..
Remember, u CANT USE a compression gauge for a gasoline engine, on a diesel..
The compression numbers are to hi on a diesel and could possibly blow up the gauge..
The minimum for a diesel engine is 300 psi..

If ur not getting a noise change when loosening the line, that means it’s not firing properly..
Just like pulling the spark plug wire on your car, trying to find a miss..
 

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
Yeah thats my thoughts too. I would like to know what’s causing the cylinder to miss.

- compression too low
- fuel not injecting
- fuel is injecting, but not properly?

Maybe not related, but noticed that one of the valves is wet and has a perfect straight line on it where its wet. Seemed kinda weird
Also the tip of the Nozzle was wet with fuel, which maybe isn’t too weird but kind of since the engine was just running at operating temperature right before we pulled it out.
 

thepumpguysc

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
7,592
Location
Sunny South Carolina
Occupation
Master Inj.Pump rebuilder
U might be over thinkin it a smidge..’
Find the cylinder w the miss and just swap the injector to the hole furthest away ..& see if the miss followed the injector or stayed w the cyl.. easy peasy..
 

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
i did already put in 3 new ( known good ones) injection nozzles. Or fuel delivery valves as Cat calls them. It didn’t change much.
It might sound a little bit better but still stumbles at high idle.

3,4,5 run around 240 Celcius
1is 160C maybe
And around 200 on the other 2.
 

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
Maybe Im expecting too much out of this old hunk of Iron?
But I would expect it to run with a steady exhaust note not constantly burbling and spit & sputter.
Plus when it sputters, it puffs different colour smoke, sometimes more white usually darker black. It also seems to have a fairly steady black haze, not real thick but seems more than “normal”.
 

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
814
Location
kent, wa
I think all looks good in the pics. How are the fuel lines from the tank and the age of the fuel?
How about air filters? Black haze, rack? Turbo?
In tank screen? Just things to check.
 

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
The fuel is fairly new, the machine was being used daily as of may or june this year. It looks and smells fine. Air filters are not new, but clean, I blew them out anyway.
Can a guy easily go into the pumping elements on the injection pump to inspect anything? Or is that a stay out of the there zone? I have never been into one personally, but wouldn’t have an issue doing it if its a matter of being careful and such. But if it involves special tools etc maybe not.

Im worried the rusty schmoo has damaged the injection pump. This unit has a unknown history, and based on the obvious rust damage on the cylinder walls of #1, it may have sat for a long time, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the injection pump is in less than good condition. So far everything I’ve been into has been complete junk. Engine oil pump was Fukkt with a capital F, the oil pick ul screen was so plugged up it was collapsed, oil pump drive worn right out, crank thrust surfaces shot, fuel system full of crap, under carriage crap and on and on. Classic “trying to save money” by not doing it properly.
And Im stuck in the middle trying to be the turd polisher.
 

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
What would be worst case if it just gets left as is?
Might foul up the cylinder if its not firing properly and maybe start using oil?
Excessive blow by?

I have a feeling the owners are gonna say F it and send it as is. Its there call I suppose.
 

JEVANS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2023
Messages
100
Location
AB,Canada
It Ran quite awhile, probably close to 2 hrs at full Rpm the first time, then at least an hour plus, I took it for a bit of a shake down drive to see if a little bit of shake rattle and roll would help anything, but so far not much has changed.
I suspect there gonna say screw it, let it go to work as is.
Being a pipe layer it doesn’t really have to work very hard, does alot of sitting and holding pipe.
 

chidog

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Messages
814
Location
kent, wa
I'm surprised they don't want a top tier engine retro fit there in Canada? you know emissions.
And reason 1 that I don't understand the ridiculous high prices on almost 50 year antique equipment.
 
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