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Back Hoe Operator Question

wrenchbender

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Joined
Jan 17, 2007
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489
Location
Belton SC
Ok in a nother thread I told you I played in the dirt. Here's the question how do you dig in straight line and get the correct fall in a ditch. Right or wrong here's what I did stretched a string the length of the dig and set the fall in the string. Then I tried to keep the same distance from the string and watched the bucket pins trying to keep the top one even with the string . Worked fairly well but there's got to be a better way or is there?
 

digger242j

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Essentially, without knowing it, you re-invented the wheel.

As I understand it, long long ago, before there was such a thing as a laser, they used "batter boards" which were basically the same thing. They'd pull a string, set to match the required grade, and then measure down from it.

If you want to get really primitive, you could get a ten foot 2X$ and a level, and check the amount of fall in the lenght of the board. The problem with that is you can compound your error too quickly--if you're 2 inches1 deep and you make that same mistake three times in a row, now you're 6 incehs deep.

You could also set up a plain old transit or builder's level and figure out how much fall you'd have per foot of ditch, and then take sights at known distances from where you began. That would keep you on grade too.

Then, of course, there are lasers these days.

On edit: Watching the bucket pins was a good idea too. If I'm digging something that has to be a constant depth below grade, like a gas or electric line, rather than measuring constantly, I'll just note how that depth compares to the bucket pins, and dig to that depth.
 
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580bruce

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Oct 24, 2006
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214
Location
entiat wa
A good way I was shown, is a pea level and a bow-rake.Use the rake to clean the ditch as you go,and the handle as a grade rod.Pick a point that won't move to shoot on,set the pea-gun on it -away you go.
 

Dozerboy

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Jan 18, 2006
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TX
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Operator
A lot of places still use batter boards and I use the heel of my boot if I don't have any paint to paint where I want to dig. When you’re using a large hoe and can't get the string close enough to level down. Set up 2 string lines at the same elevation 4' or more apart. Get a pole and put a mark or tape on how much cut you have from the string. Then just stick the pole in the trench and line up your mark with the 2 strings. I think by pea level he means one that clips on a string line I make more marks on mine so I had %s of fall. This was everyday stuff for me on the last company I worked for there to cheap to maintain there equipment there damn sure to cheap to buy a laser.
 

Countryboy

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Jun 8, 2006
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Georgia
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Load Out Tech. / Heavy Equipment Operator / Locomo
And, of course, Countryboy has never been afraid to look stupid... :cool2

:D

Welcome to HEF Digger242j! :drinkup Feel free to jump in where you like. (I shall turn the other cheek...) :D

Wrenchbender, My granddad used a simular method when he was digging with his old Ford backhoe. This was over 10 years ago before lasers and GPS became popular with the smaller companies but I don't think he would of bought any of that anyway. It was simple but it worked well since all you had to have was some string and a couple stakes.
 
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Lashlander

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Jan 4, 2007
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1,226
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Kodiak Ak.
A pea level is like a little telescope about six or seven inches long. When you look though it it has a bubble level on one side of the lens inside. You use it with a grade rod or a stick tape. Establish a bench mark to site to, then put the pea shooter against the tape and site to your bench mark. One man can check grade on any location or a trench.
 

Countryboy

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Do you have a picture Lash? I searched for a real picture of one for a while but didn't find anything close. What you described doesn't bring anything to mind for me. Does it have other names? It sounds like a cool little piece to have. :yup
 

Lashlander

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Jan 4, 2007
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Kodiak Ak.
Wow, I had to go digging for it. I guess its called a hand level. The only thing I ever heard it called was a pea shooter or a pea level. They are really helpful for cutting slopes or tench grade if your working alone. A good one costs around a hundred bucks. You can get a cheapo for 30 or so maybe even cheaper. You get what you pay for though.
This isn't a real good pic but you can see what one is.
 
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Countryboy

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Man, thats cool. :cool:

Thanks for the effort. I tried everything to find one, with no luck. Now I gotta get one for the tool box. :thumbsup
 

tylermckee

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Messages
768
Location
washington
Pea shooter works great for roughing things in, and scoping sites out when you dont want to drag a laser level around and set it up in 20 different spots. Or if your lazy engineer wont come out and give you your grade stakes for your cut/fill and slopes :p
 

RonG

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Dec 2, 2003
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Meriden ct
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heavy equipment operator
Those levels were known as lock levels at one time,hand levels seems to be more common these days and they were used a lot before the laser appeared on the scene.
I have bought probably a half dozen or so of them over the years,most over $100.00 and contrary to some here the cheaper ones were the best in my opinion.They are only accurate for 12 to 15 feet which is just fine if you know their limitations.The key is to transfer your elevations before you get out of range and they work fine.If you think that you can use one that magnifies,I bought a leitz that is 5 power thinking how smart I was and I would never miss the $160.00 because of the work it would save me transferring all those silly elevations,well........save your money.The rule still applies.12 to 15 feet is all that you can depend on with them and they work just fine if you remember that.I have dug 100's of cellar holes with them at the same percentage of error that I get with the laser.
A line level and a hand level can get a lot of good work done,in many cases faster than using a laser when you consider the setup time.Ron G
 

digger242j

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Oct 31, 2003
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Southwestern PA
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Self employed excavator
Ok. Now I know exactly what we're talking about. I have one around here somewhere. I thought it was properly called a "lach" level (same pronunciation), but even google hasn't heard of one, so I could be mistaken.

They take some practice, and a steady hand, to use well, but there are some of the really old guys (meaning older than me), who swear by them.
 

rino1494

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Feb 21, 2006
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831
Location
NEPA
We call them lock levels. We used to use them to cut roads in to sub-grade.
 

wrenchbender

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2007
Messages
489
Location
Belton SC
Man o man that's a lot of info although I was lost at Pea gun :beatsme guess my Pea brain couldn't process that:confused: But it's cleared up now, the reason I asked is I'll be digging another trench about 150' long in the next few weeks. BTW these are for run off from gutters the lay of the land kinda dictates the amont of fall. The big reason for this is to direct the run off toward a pond. Digger and Countryboy ya'll play nice or you'll be put in time out lol BTW I guess that Pea Gun should be in the other thread (nick names)
 

fhdesign

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Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
54
Location
Norwalk, CT
We usually call those levels sight levels, I use a berger (under $20.00) I would definitely recommend it for gutter drain work, I also use it by balancing it on the end of a rake or shovel handle.
 
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