Big dozers

[chidog]

Is there anything in the works for any company desiring to build a very large dozer in the future?
Komatsu had the right idea but that fizzled with the stopping production years ago of the 575, sure must still be popular to some, not many forsale.
You'd think there would be a large mining demand for very large dozers, especially with all that stripping they do for gold mining, and of course the ripping of perma frost in the northern areas they are mining in.

 

[Tones]

2 things against large dozers
1- job duration and
2- establishment costs
Having 2 smaller machines makes more sense.
If 1 breaks down the work continues all be it at half pace
Less establishment costs and easier to move.
Easier to sell when the tasks have finished.

 

[Welder Dave]

One of the problems with the 575 was customers like the oilsands required the dealer to have min. $1mil. parts in inventory at all times. The dealer almost had to have a sub branch just for the 575.

 

[.RC.]

Perhaps big dozers being one trick ponies, there is just no large call for big ones. They can rip ground and push material a short distance.

You see fleets of mining trucks that dwarf dozers, you see huge mining shovels and loaders and scrapers that dwarf dozers. All to shift material a longer distance then any dozer could do it efficiently. There seems to be a demand to shift material long distance, not short distance.

 

[92U 3406]

One of the problems with the 575 was customers like the oilsands required the dealer to have min. $1mil. parts in inventory at all times. The dealer almost had to have a sub branch just for the 575.

A lot of folks have said they were a flop up there because they were always getting stuck in the soft ground and it was hard pulling out the biggest machine on the site.

Could be BS but I've heard that story from a few different people.

 

[Nige]

For all practical purposes in the world of mining 850-ish BHP (D11/D475 size) on a track dozer seems to be about the limit.

The D575 is/was in a similar situation to the LeTourneau/P&H/Komatsu L-2350 wheel loader. The market for both of them is potentially so small because of their size that they struggle to gain any significant market share.

 

[HardRockNM]

D11s are totally adequate for the copper mines down here. If more capacity is needed, they'll either put a second D11 on the job or pair it with a D10.

 

[Welder Dave]

Not enough of them to be able to offer rebuilt exchange components either. That was one of the reasons the county my property is in bought a D6N over a Komatsu. The Komatsu was more productive though. Big savings and quicker turn over. The cost of undercarriage for a 575 has to be astromical too.

 

[alco]

One of the problems with the 575 was customers like the oilsands required the dealer to have min. $1mil. parts in inventory at all times. The dealer almost had to have a sub branch just for the 575.

The reason there were never any 575s in the oilseeds was more to do with the ground conditions. The material is notoriously soft, and D11/475 size machines struggle to move around in it some times. The 575 was felt to be just too heavy for the application, so they never brought any in.

 

[Welder Dave]

Yes they were considered too heavy but the dealer (I think Coneco at the time) also didn't want to stock $1mil. in parts for 1 or maybe 2 machines. I think it was a similar situation at other potential operations where they might have been considered. Downtime for repairs and maintenance was a big consideration. If I recall there were only 22 or 23 575's built.

 

[JaredV]

Are any 575s still working?

 

[Tyler d4c]

Cooney brothers mining had a proto type 575 striping for coal about 7 miles from here. When the testing got done they offered the machine to them to buy but they didn't because they thought the tariffs where to much. It got torched right there.

 

[alco]

Yes they were considered too heavy but the dealer (I think Coneco at the time) also didn't want to stock $1mil. in parts for 1 or maybe 2 machines. I think it was a similar situation at other potential operations where they might have been considered. Downtime for repairs and maintenance was a big consideration. If I recall there were only 22 or 23 575's built.

What I was trying to get at, is that there was no demand for them. It was never an issue of parts availability, or dealer parts stock.

I actually sat in on one of the presentations that was made to pitch the dozers to us. There was no mention of anyone having to stock a certain amount of parts. It was purely an issue of us not being interested in buying machines that we didn't feel would work in our application.

The dealer was more than happy to try and sell them to us.

 

[Welder Dave]

I think Komatsu were hoping to demo one and there wasn't much interest. I think one of the oil sands operations (maybe all of them) said if they did buy one they required the dealer to have $1mil. parts inventory. It was part of the fine print if a purchase was made. I think it was also a big request considering they were never going to be a big seller. The 575 was a very niche market machine. I seem to recall Komatsu would have needed some time to produce the required spare parts as the 575 wasn't a standard production machine. They would have had to do a special production run for a lot of the parts.

As far as being too heavy it was a big concern. One of the 1st. Marion 351M shovels went to Suncor and it had special extra wide pads fitted specifically for the oil sands. Syncrude helped develop the RH400 and they had extra wide pads too. I'm not sure if all the shovels up there required special extra wide pads but probably. It was many years ago I read a lot of this in some construction magazines I got from a neighbor. I also heard some from people who either worked at a dealer or knew someone that did. I think the Demag H241 was the biggest shovel in around 1978 and 1st went to the oilsands. The IH 580 loader was up there around the same time. I saw a bucket for a 580 in a shop getting repaired in 84 or 85. It was hard to fathom how big of a machine was needed to carry a bucket that big.

 

[chidog]

It would be a good machine for some of that gold mining. Evidently some think its a great deal, never see them with rippers forsale. Would be fantastic for perma frost ground. And the icy clumps could be track walked to crush them. 575 was not super heavy, I'm surprised how little it weighs, I think it should have been much larger. There are so many excavators that way out weigh it.

 

[skyking1]

big excavators are not doing any work while walking. It is a different dynamic. A dozer has to go across the same ground over and over, while moving a wad of material. It increases the apparent ground pressure significantly.

 

[Welder Dave]

Excavators typically have much longer tracks giving them much lower ground pressure. However, some of the really big loading shovels look to have way too narrow of pads. Almost like they're for a smaller machine. Ground conditions are super important for big machines. I recall an article that said 400 ton trucks are the largest size that is practical. Going bigger just creates bigger problems, sinking in the ground being a major one. Tires used to be an issue but I think it's just the mere weight of the machines and very limited markets for such heavy machines. There were some big machines that were ahead of their time though. O&K RH300, Terex Titan and the Clark 675 are a few that may have faired better had they came out in a different time.

 

[R.D.G013]

Are any 575s still working?

Some still working in China, a lot were bought 2nd hand and sent to China, the last new one sold in 2012 is still working in Western Australia I believe. There is a D 575 forum on FB that has all the info on them.