Bobcat S185 can hydraulics/flow GPH be upgraded?

[Bobcat Crazy]

Hi All,
I haven't been on in a while but I hope you all are doing fine and are about ready for a great CHRISTmas! I was wondering if there is a modification that can be done to my 2003 Bobcat S185 to upgrade or increase the GPM flow? I have looked at high flow compact track loaders which I would love to have but, the price is crazy for someone like me that just plays around the house and our small farm with my toys.

I guess that is why I have an older Case 1155D track loader and a 2003 Bobcat S185. If I were working for customers and getting income from these machines I could see investing in these newer awesome machines. But for me the upkeep cost of parts and the fuel they burn are enough for me as I look toward retirement just a few more years down the road.

This is not to mention the fact that I would not reach retirement age if I bought a fairly machine because the wife would kill me when the 1st monthly payment became due!

So I was just wondering if there is a mod that would step up the flow on my little machine. And I knew that if there was this possibility that some of you guys would know about it.

Thanks Again Guys!
B-Crazy

 

[phil314]

Yes, it can be done. It takes a lot of time, money, research, and work. Short answer is it really isn't worth it.

If you need high flow, sell the old machine, then buy another with high flow already on it.
Much less time, money, effort to go this route.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Thanks phil314 for the info. I figured it was possible but I really didn't know. You do bring up good points about the expense which would have the most bearing on whether I would attempt this or not. The extra effort and time I don't mind as I have to have something that keeps my interest so it will keep me out of this recliner each day when I get home from work.

I am considering an older high flow machine but I am only a few years from retirement so I am trying not to get into a loooong range financial commitment. I am not looking to use these toys for a business but just to play around the farm with.

Thanks!
B-Crazy

 

[phil314]

I looked into this for my S650. Parts alone from bobcat were almost $4k.
Biggest problem was getting straight answers on how to do it.
It's not like bobcat or anyone else has a step by step on how to do it.
Trial and error would be frustrating and expensive.

You could sell the S185 and then buy another S185 with high flow for very close to the same price.
If you are just looking for a project, maybe buy an older machine that need some TLC, fix it and resell it.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Sell my standard flow and buy another S185 high flow without being several thousands $$$ difference? Now that is something I would vote for!

I have bought a few machines with the intention of fixing and selling, but, the problem is I never get to the selling stage. Once I get it fixed I decide I need to keep it to play with. I thought I would get out of that stage some day, but I am still working on maturing to that level.

Well I guess I sold one, I bought an old old Bobcat 630 (not S630 just plain 630 with the Wisconsin engine). I rebuilt that one and sold it. But right now I have a John Deere 310D, a Case 1155D, my Bobcat S185, a Massey Ferguson 35, a Massey Ferguson 235, a Massey Ferguson 245, a Massey Ferguson 265.

All of which I have rebuilt to some degree, some much more of a degree than others and brought them back to life. So I think it is plain to see that I have a keeping problem!

Although I do hope to sell the a Massey Ferguson 235 which I have just finished in the spring. So we will see how that goes.

But if I run across another broken down machine (that can be purchased for a reasonable price) I'm sure I will start the process all over again. It seems a reasonable priced even broken machine is hard to find around here, or maybe I just don't know the right place to look for them.

Anyway hopefully as I get closer to retirement I will begin to sale some of these machines/toys to supplement my income. But you know what they say about the best layed plans of mice and men. So we will see how it goes.

Thanks!
B-Crazy

 

[willie59]

Why exactly do you need high flow? Typically needed for funky attachments like mulchers and such, but most attachments will work fine without the need of high flow. High flow is an added expense in both the machine and attachments that run it, usually determined by really needing it.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Why exactly do you need high flow? Typically needed for funky attachments like mulchers and such, but most attachments will work fine without the need of high flow. High flow is an added expense in both the machine and attachments that run it, usually determined by really needing it.

Hi Willie, good to hear from you again!
My dream is to piece together a machine to run a mulcher on my small farm. I know it would be much cheaper to hire someone to do that but that takes all of the fun out of it.

I have a BM601 BushMaster it is basically what we have always called a bush hog that goes behind a tractor, except it goes on a skid steer.

It does good on the small stuff but it calls for more GPM than my Bobcat S185 is spec-ed at, but it still does pretty good. But if I could get into and older high flow machine and an older mulcher I could really kill some stuff and clean up the farm the way I want to be.

And who knows, if I had an older outfit and got the farm cleaned up the way I would like to have it. Maybe I would do a couple of small jobs for hire and if I made a few bucks I might really go Bobcat Crazy and pay a newer outfit to have something to do when I retire.

Anybody that keeps buying old stuff to rebuild is not real smart anyway, thus the name Bobcat Crazy!

B-Crazy

 

[KSSS]

The issue with high flow on a machine like that is, it doesn't have enough hp to generate a serious amount of flow anyway. You are way far away from running a high flow mulcher on it. There are some low flow mulchers but your machine is (in my opinion) too underpowered for such an attachment either. Find an S300 or so and you have a machine to build off of. Any money spent trying to get more out of an S185, is money wasted.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

The issue with high flow on a machine like that is, it doesn't have enough hp to generate a serious amount of flow anyway. You are way far away from running a high flow mulcher on it. There are some low flow mulchers but your machine is (in my opinion) too underpowered for such an attachment either. Find an S300 or so and you have a machine to build off of. Any money spent trying to get more out of an S185, is money wasted.

Hi KSSS,
Thanks for the info I certainly don't know these things, that is why I ask these questions. So if I understand you correctly there are both high flow and standard flow mulchers. Is that correct?

• So, if a standard flow mulcher is a good machine, what HP and GPM would I need to run a standard mulcher?
• Can standard flow equipment be run on a high flow machine? Or is it all or nothing?
• I guess what I am asking is: does a high flow machine have a standard flow setting so that it would run either high flow or standard flow equipment?

Thanks Guys for your time and advice.
B-Crazy

 

[KSSS]

Yes, high flow machines can run regular aux. or high flow. I have never run a low flow mulcher. However, I own and operate high flow mulchers. Your machine if I recall makes from 57-62 hp and around 18 gpm. I have not researched these numbers just what I recall. You can research low flow mulchers, talk to their reps and perhaps they can lead you down the right path. Mulching effectively, takes a lot of power, both hp, flow and psi. Your machine has little of any of those. They also generate a lot of heat both engine and hyd. Your machine due to low power will want to run over relief a lot. Combined with the fact that mulchers are heavy. My guess would be that you would over your machines ROC the moment you latched on to one. Low flow mulchers can find a home on a large frame machine that makes a solid mid 20's gpm, with at least 75 hp. They are, even with machines like I have stated not as productive as a high flow, but they apparently can get work done, just slower.

Don't talk my word for it. Contact the mulcher OEM's that have low flow mulchers and tell them what you have and see what they say, hopefully they will be honest. I believe you will find out that your S185 is a poor machine to hang a low flow mulcher off of. If mulching is something you really need to be involved in, then you will need to pony up and get a machine that is better set up to accomplish that. Keep us informed of how things go.

 

[phil314]

The one thing I learned when looking at snowblowers - there is no such thing as high flow or low flow.
Those are outdated concepts.
Newer low flow machine have more flow than older high flow machine.

A high flow 1845c has less flow than a low flow S650. And there is everything in between.
You need to talk about GPM and motor size when matching attachments to a machine.
Snow blowers can have 6 or 7 different size motors on them to match the different flow rates of different machines.
Mulchers are the same as blowers.

Anyone who tries to sell you a 'high flow' or 'low flow' attachment without talking GPM probably doesn't know what they are talking about.
You could get one for an 18gpm machine, it needs to be matched properly to work well.
But realize it's just going to be smaller and you'll have to go slower with it.
If you want to get the work done fast, you'll need a bigger machine and more flow.

 

[KSSS]

By talking about high or low flow you are automatically talking about GPM (and PSI). That is the entire idea, it is all about flow and PSI. They are not outdated concepts, the machines you maybe comparing may not be comparable to each other. The point I think your making is that calling something high flow has to be relative to the machine your talking about. A high flow 1845C isn't really a high flow machine compared to a modern machine running standard aux, HOWEVER it is high flow compared to a standard aux 1845C. Matching attachment motor size to the machine in question is always important, regardless of what hyd powered attachment it is, but there are other considerations when matching a mulcher. The point in question here is that putting a mulcher, regardless of what size hyd motor it has, is not a great idea on a machine like a S185.

 

[ThreeCW]

Here are some key specs for your 2003 S185:
Horsepower - 56 hp
Operating Weight - 5808 lbs
Rated Operating Capacity - 1850 lbs
Standard Flow - 16.9 gpm
High Flow - 26.4 gpm.
Relief Valve Pressure - 3300 psi

Here is a link to all the specs from Bobcat:
https://www.bobcat.com/na/en/equipment/loaders/skid-steer-loaders/non-current-models/s185

 

[phil314]

By talking about high or low flow you are automatically talking about GPM (and PSI). That is the entire idea, it is all about flow and PSI. They are not outdated concepts, the machines you maybe comparing may not be comparable to each other. The point I think your making is that calling something high flow has to be relative to the machine your talking about. A high flow 1845C isn't really a high flow machine compared to a modern machine running standard aux, HOWEVER it is high flow compared to a standard aux 1845C. Matching attachment motor size to the machine in question is always important, regardless of what hyd powered attachment it is, but there are other considerations when matching a mulcher. The point in question here is that putting a mulcher, regardless of what size hyd motor it has, is not a great idea on a machine like a S185.

Yes, what your saying is true from the viewpoint of a machine.

My comments are from the viewpoint of attachments.
Selling a snowblower as low flow or high flow is meaningless.
There are way too many people who think any 'high flow' attachment will just automatically on their 'high flow' machine.
They think - both high flow, so it should just work, right.

And that thinking is wrong.
You need to know specifics about the GPM and PSI of your machine in order to match attachments.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Yes, what your saying is true from the viewpoint of a machine.

My comments are from the viewpoint of attachments.
Selling a snowblower as low flow or high flow is meaningless.
There are way too many people who think any 'high flow' attachment will just automatically on their 'high flow' machine.
They think - both high flow, so it should just work, right.

And that thinking is wrong.
You need to know specifics about the GPM and PSI of your machine in order to match attachments.

Hey Guys thank you All,
This is good conversation for people like me that just use these machines on our own property. I am one of those people phil314 was taking about when he said some people think just because it says High Flow (meant to me that is was automatically work on any machine that said High Flow).

Also I abandoned the "Modify the S185 Idea" after the 1st few replies.

I appreciate all of this info from all of you Guys with the experience in this type of equipment. What it seems to me is if I am going to do anything much more that running the bush hog I have for my S185 I will need another machine. Stronger HP and higher GPM flow.

In the end a machine capable of running a mulcher (regardless of flow) may be out of my reach for now. However, I will keep watching the auctions and such to see what comes up. I love building diesel engines it has always been interesting to me. So, maybe sooner or later I will run across something with a blown engine of worse that I can afford to take on to revive.

Although my wife certainly hopes I do not find another toy.

If I were younger I would look at one of the more expensive machines but I am not really considering that at this time. But who knows what I might do in the future, they say Col. Sanders started his KFC empire with his first retirement check.

So I guess there is still hope for me to buy another toy!! And my wife says!

Thanks Guys!
B-Crazy

 

[KSSS]

I will share a mistake that got me into trouble this year. I bought a used ConEquec Wheel Saw attachment when the oil boom busted in ND, five years ago or so its a High flow version of course, but what I didn't take into account was my newer high flow machines make more PSI. It worked for a while, I don't use it a lot. This Fall while using the saw, it started leaking oil. I take it in and find out that the DanFoss motor would take 40 gpm, but only at 3K PSI. My two newest machines are 40 gpm, but 3500 PSI. Still searching for a hyd. motor that will fit and strong enough for the increase in PSI. While I am aware of these issues, I didn't think about it, while hooking up the attachment. So PSI can matter as well. Years ago 3K or just above was standard in SSL's. Now they can do 4200. So a lot of these older HF attachments while they may show they can handle the flow, pressure may be another story.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

I will share a mistake that got me into trouble this year. I bought a used ConEquec Wheel Saw attachment when the oil boom busted in ND, five years ago or so its a High flow version of course, but what I didn't take into account was my newer high flow machines make more PSI. It worked for a while, I don't use it a lot. This Fall while using the saw, it started leaking oil. I take it in and find out that the DanFoss motor would take 40 gpm, but only at 3K PSI. My two newest machines are 40 gpm, but 3500 PSI. Still searching for a hyd. motor that will fit and strong enough for the increase in PSI. While I am aware of these issues, I didn't think about it, while hooking up the attachment. So PSI can matter as well. Years ago 3K or just above was standard in SSL's. Now they can do 4200. So a lot of these older HF attachments while they may show they can handle the flow, pressure may be another story.

So, I can see from this that even people that know a lot about the combining of machines and attachments can overlook things also. So it looks like when buying attachments there are at least 4 main things to consider.

• HP
• GPM
• PSI
• Weight

Someone like me could make a lot of mistakes when looking at attachments, but all of the info you Guys have shared with me has taught me a lot about what questions to ask when looking attachments. When I bought my bush hog that I run on my S185 I only asked one question. "will this run on a low flow machine. It does good for what I do with it but while looking on their website "Bushmaster" last week for some new blades, I learned that my Bobcat GPM is below what the attachment calls for. But it is close enough that it does pretty good.

So if I end getting a skid steer with a better GPM even though not a HF I think my bush hog will work even better. I am really wanting track skid steer but now I know to pay attention to the 4 things mentioned above as well. Although my next machine will most likely be determined by price more than other factors I now know not to send money on anything unless it has better GPM etc. than what I have now.

Awesome help Guys!
B-Crazy

 

[Welder Dave]

Why not run a PTO mulcher on your MF265. You have 60 PTO HP that would take a big skid steer with high flow and high pressure to match. Also no expensive hydraulics to mess with. It would depend a lot on what size of tree's and bush you want to mulch. The other thing you need to consider with high flow and an attachment like a mulcher is heat. You'll likely have to add a good size hyd. cooler.

 

[phil314]

So, I can see from this that even people that know a lot about the combining of machines and attachments can overlook things also. So it looks like when buying attachments there are at least 4 main things to consider.

• HP
• GPM
• PSI
• Weight

Yes, it's good to keep them all in mind.
Both GPM and PSI are important when rating a hydraulic system.

The formula for hydraulic HP = GPM x PSI / 1714.
1845c - 16 gpm x 2300 psi / 1714 = 21.47 hp
s185 - 16.9 gpm x 3300 psi / 1714 = 32.54 hp
s650 - 23 gpm x 3500 psi / 1714 = 46.97 hp

You can see from the examples, even though the 1845c & s185 flow nearly the same, the s185's hydraulic are much more powerful.
PSI is important too, not just flow.
Also keep in mind the HP of the engine too. Many are limited to 74 hp. It's driving the hydraulics.
I've see some machines where the hydraulic HP is almost equal to the engine HP. That isn't realistic.
Once you factor in friction losses, you'd end up with 0 usable hp to actually move the machine.

 

[Bobcat Crazy]

Why not run a PTO mulcher on your MF265. You have 60 PTO HP that would take a big skid steer with high flow and high pressure to match. Also no expensive hydraulics to mess with. It would depend a lot on what size of tree's and bush you want to mulch. The other thing you need to consider with high flow and an attachment like a mulcher is heat. You'll likely have to add a good size hyd. cooler.

That is an idea that I haven't thought about however, the skid steer offers so much more maneuverability with the mulcher on the front with the lift and tilt features than pulling one behind a tractor.