Hello everyone! I'm really new to this so please forgive me if this has been discussed before. I'm hoping to completely change out all the fluids and filters on my new to me machine. The hydraulic oil is milky, the axles fluids are black and there's redish in transmission. I've been scouring the internet and calling local shops looking for a definite answer and out of 50 sources, I have 50 different answers. The manual calls for ms-1209 Hy-tran ultra all over and one shop is trying to sell me TH(?) fluid about$70 per 5gal, another says TDH about $80, another TCH about $80 and dealer says Duratrans $100 or Case Hy-tran $250... Internet says pop OEM in because pumps are expensive but Hy-tran costs more than a refurbished pump, about $1800. Full on fluid flush is about 9/10 buckets? I attached the fluid pages from the manual. It's all seeming to be working fine right now but I don't have any experience. Any advise on how I move forward? Thanks in advance
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Case 580 SM fluid change
- Thread starter drew15975
- Start date
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Thanks for the quick reply Tinkerer! I do have that post bookmarked for when I do the flush. The only thing that is making me nervous about flushing with $2500+ worth of OEM oil is that I might miss a potential leak or not completely get all the water out and have to dump another $2500 into it. One of the hydraulic shops recommended that I dump some methyl hydrate to help with the water in the system. The cost of a new machine was a scary amount of money but as I start to add all this up in my head, I might be on the losing end of it lol. I'll get it eventually, just a steep learning curve
Tinkerer
Senior Member
I realize it is expensive. But well worth it in the long run.
Don't worry about a leak, because you will see immediately.
It's a different situation than when you are operating the machine and don't see it right away, and you are a mile from where you can fix it.
If you do it like i did, pull the rod pins.
Then you don't need to mess around with bucket, boom (front and rear) and dipper positions.
Don't worry about a leak, because you will see immediately.
It's a different situation than when you are operating the machine and don't see it right away, and you are a mile from where you can fix it.
If you do it like i did, pull the rod pins.
Then you don't need to mess around with bucket, boom (front and rear) and dipper positions.
alrman
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Welcome to HEF @drew15975
Using Hy-trans in the hydraulic system is a waste of money - just use a good quality 68 grade hydraulic oil.
The red fluid in the transmission would indicate you have a powershift transmission - which uses ATF.
The manual doesn't tell you - but you will need to add "axle oil additive" to the rear axle with the Hy-trans oil - it will stop the brakes from "squarking" or chattering.
Definitely use Hy-trans in the rear axle.
You could use 80w90 in the front axle (has no brakes) & all wheel planetary hubs - will not be a problem.
Using Hy-trans in the hydraulic system is a waste of money - just use a good quality 68 grade hydraulic oil.
The red fluid in the transmission would indicate you have a powershift transmission - which uses ATF.
The manual doesn't tell you - but you will need to add "axle oil additive" to the rear axle with the Hy-trans oil - it will stop the brakes from "squarking" or chattering.
Definitely use Hy-trans in the rear axle.
You could use 80w90 in the front axle (has no brakes) & all wheel planetary hubs - will not be a problem.
Great tip I think I may do that Tinkerer!
@alrman, I don't think I have a powershift transmission unless the previous owner removed the gear selection lever for some reason... Haven't really crawled around under the machine too much yet to confirm either way. It has been warming up and the 8 foot snowbanks around my driveway have been melting then freezing overnight. If I don't have powershift, would Hy-tran go in the tranny? As for the additive, it says in the manual that the brake fluid is supplied by the hydraulic reservoir. Would the additive still need to be added to the rear axle if this is the case? Thanks for the replies! Sorry if these are basic questions, I'm very inexperienced
@alrman, I don't think I have a powershift transmission unless the previous owner removed the gear selection lever for some reason... Haven't really crawled around under the machine too much yet to confirm either way. It has been warming up and the 8 foot snowbanks around my driveway have been melting then freezing overnight. If I don't have powershift, would Hy-tran go in the tranny? As for the additive, it says in the manual that the brake fluid is supplied by the hydraulic reservoir. Would the additive still need to be added to the rear axle if this is the case? Thanks for the replies! Sorry if these are basic questions, I'm very inexperienced
Billrog
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I use hydraulic oil in the hydraulic system and Hy-tran in every thing else in my 580SM with over 8,000 hrs now and never a problem. It's possible the red oil in the tran was to determine at some point whether a leak was from the tran or torch converter. I also put an additive in the dif when I changed the oil because my manual said to.
I did notice a couple drips of red fluid when I crawled under the machine... Nothing in the snow but it was there. Could be why the guy was selling it. It was pretty dirty under there so maybe I'll give it a bit of a clean and see where it's coming from. Hopefully just a bit of a sloppy pour. My machine is an 04 with 3500hrs so I thought "what could go wrong?"
alrman
Senior Member
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The additive still needs to be added to the rear axle oil - the hydraulics do indeed supply the brake master cylinders, however, Hy-trans with the additive, is the oil that the actual brake discs run in - hence the need for the additive.
Can you describe your gearshift configuration in the cab?
FNR lever on the left of steering wheel with 4sp manual gearshift lever on the right of steering wheel is shuttleshift - which uses Hy-trans oil.
FNR lever with twist 1,2,3,4,on the lever with red LED panel on lower right of steering wheel is Powershift - which uses ATF
I do have the manual gearshift on the right and no twist shifter or LED panel. I'll definitely pick up some additive and hy-tran tomorrow and do the axles, planetarys and transmission. I might hold off on the hydraulic flush for now, I noticed some heavy wear on a few hoses so I'm going to take a good look over and get some quotes from a few hydraulic shops in my area. In the manual it says to clean breathers with "solvent". Would that mean something like brake cleaner or TSP? Or just an old toothbrush and toothpick?
They say solvent because they're not allowed to tell you to rinse them with a cup of gasoline. or you could use diesel, or hot water and soap, or any other solvent.
I'd wait on the hydraulics also, change the filter, maybe take an SOS oil sample, and run it until you get the kinks worked out. Check the manual for hydraulic oil spec, I might go with a 46 instead of 68, since you're in Canada and Alrman is in Australia. Might depend on if you plan to work 12hour days all summer and store it over the winter, vs one afternoon a month over the summer and a couple days every snowfall. hytrans is for the wet clutches and brakes, not needed for hydraulics.
I'd wait on the hydraulics also, change the filter, maybe take an SOS oil sample, and run it until you get the kinks worked out. Check the manual for hydraulic oil spec, I might go with a 46 instead of 68, since you're in Canada and Alrman is in Australia. Might depend on if you plan to work 12hour days all summer and store it over the winter, vs one afternoon a month over the summer and a couple days every snowfall. hytrans is for the wet clutches and brakes, not needed for hydraulics.
Thanks Delmar I will work it for 12 - 16 hrs a day in June as I excavate and build my shop, then it will be used occasionally for property maintenance year round. I might go with 68 now and 46 before winter? Manual calls for Hy-tran but the local Case dealer also has hydraulic fluid. I did buy a hydraulic filter but I haven't used it yet. Might pop it in tomorrow. I climbed under today to change the oil in the tranny and did the planetarys. I sprung for 3 buckets of hy-tran. In the tranny, the fluid had a really burnt smell and the rear planetarys were almost bone dry with black fluid and a grey paste on the magnet. I didn't change the tranny filter as I couldn't find it at first and then thought that I would drive it a bit and change the fluids all over again and then the filter . Is that just overboard? I'm quite worried with the state of the fluids. I haven't even seen the axle fluids yet but I imagine that they're just as bad. I really need this in good working order by June. Boy, would it suck to have just bought this, dumped a few grand into it, and still have to rent this summer lol. I am really enjoying having this though 
I assume the trans filter is the same as my 580M. It's located on the right side just behind the rubber firewall seal. You can't get to it from below. There is little clearance for the end of the filter. Mine was on too tight and I tried a selection of filter wrenches before I finally got it off. I have a channel-lock type and the vise-grip type but the only thing that worked for me was the band-type. It's a large diameter filter (3 1/2" or larger) and only one of my band wrenches would slip over the end. I think a good strap or chain wrench would work but those must have been out on loan as I couldn't find them.
Be sure and clean all the gunk around the old filter before you remove it because you'll be installing it by feel with your left arm and you don't want to get any crud on the seal and cause a leak.
Be sure and clean all the gunk around the old filter before you remove it because you'll be installing it by feel with your left arm and you don't want to get any crud on the seal and cause a leak.
Thanks Bote! I had lifted the firewall seal and didn't see it the first time due to lack of light and it being black. It's not as accessible as I would have thought... Could be why it was never changed. Since I've been changing fluids, I've been noticing lots of little leaks everywhere. I think I should get the pressure washer out and spend half a day spraying all the gunk off to see where they're coming from. LOTS of gunk around the transmission
I bought my 580M last year and all the filters had the installation date written on them except the trans filter so that gives you an idea of the relative difficulty in changing it. No telling when mine was changed last. I'm usually on the receiving end of advice on this forum but since I had recent experience with an issue I wanted to contribute haha. There was also a lot of gunk around my trans and I don't have any visible leaks. It doesn't take much oil to attract dirt in a dusty environment.