Case 580D started and ran great… then it didn’t

[Woosterdelt]

I have a Case 580D that I pulled in front of the garage to change the parking brake cable. Completed that task, and then the machine wouldn’t start. Turns over, puffs black smoke, just won’t fire up.

So far, I have checked the fuel shutoff solenoid which I removed and verified with 12v that it does cycle. The mechanism the solenoid operates moves freely. And the check valve on the injector return line is not blocked. It actually will allow compressed air to flow in both directions.

Anyone have any ideas? This machine ran great, and always started right up with a touch of the key. Now, it’s a huge paperweight.

Thank you.

 

[Delmer]

is it turning over fast enough? fast as it usually does? check the hydraulic control handles to make sure they're all in the center position.
"puffs black smoke" sound like it's getting fuel at least to one cylinder, but not catching the others, or too much load on all the cylinders, or? does it sound significantly different cranking than it used to? how about check the air filter and intake hose to see if something collapsed?

 

[Woosterdelt]

Delmer, thanks for the reply. Interesting that you bring up "turning over fast enough". I wondered if it was also and put a new starter on when this situation began. The new starter "seemed" like it was turning the engine over faster, but it still wouldn't fire.

I will check to see if the hydraulic controls are all in the neutral position, as I made the assumption that they were but have really not checked.

It "seems like" it cranks over like it used to, but honestly it never really cranked for that long, it always just fired up after a second of cranking.

I removed the air filter and knocked the dust off of it, inspected the air intake system and everything seemed in order.

When I get back to the machine today I will check all the hyd levers and hopefully that will be the culprit.

Thanks again.

 

[thepumpguysc]

U said u can blow air thru the overflow valve in both directions..
That’s not how they work..
They’re 1 way check valves..
The return LINE might b clogged.?
Remove the valve completely from the pump and try to start it..

 

[Woosterdelt]

thepumpguysc, I totally agree and thought why would you even need this part. I'll need to dig out some fittings to delete the valve and hook it up to see how it responds. Thank you.

 

[thepumpguysc]

It’s up to you.. but it’ll only take a second..
If it starts, THEN u can start swapping fittings..
Good luck

 

[thepumpguysc]

If it starts, u can shut it down immediately..
Next, follow the return line up to the “T” where it hooks into the injector return and take it apart there.. blow-out that removed line with compressed air..
Look INTO the fitting AT THE INJECTOR..
The bits from the pump WILL gather there.. and cause the engine to shut down at intermediate times..
While your at the machine, get the numbers off the name plate..

 

[Woosterdelt]

thepumpguysc: will do, thank you.

 

[Tinkerer]

I wondered if it was also and put a new starter on when this situation began. The new starter "seemed" like it was turning the engine over faster, but it still wouldn't fire.
It "seems like" it cranks over like it used to, but honestly it never really cranked that long, it always just fired up after a second of cranking.

Turbo charged or naturally aspirated engine ?
Check and or clean all four battery cable connections.
Have you tried putting jumper cables on the battery ? It should crank for quite a few minutes before the battery dies. Less than 2 or 3 hundred rpms an you will have starting problems.
580D with an electric shut off ??

 

[Woosterdelt]

Tinkerer;
It turns over pretty fast. Faster than with the old starter.

580D with elec fuel shutoff. Non-turbo.
Yes, hooked up another 12v vehicle to it(running) and tried that for a bit.
Thank you

 

[steve wherley]

If I remember correctly the 580's up to 580k has quick couplers to hoe under rear of tractor for removing hoe .May one became disconnected?could get hyd pressure gauge on it and see if for hi pressure when cranking but crane speed for be very slow?

 

[Tinkerer]

You stated that you took the shut-off solenoid off of the pump and checked it. That is good.
With the solenoid on the pump, did you check for a continuous 12v at the solenoid, while you are turning the engine over ?

Is the turbo charger spinning freely ?
Not likely the problem but it could be part of the reason for black smoke and no start.

 

[Woosterdelt]

I have not checked for 12 continuous volts at the solenoid yet.

worked with it about all day and even though I had 2 batteries hooked up, at one point my truck was providing 12v direct to the starter, it began to turn over slower and slower. Even while keeping the battery charged 100%.
I’m starting to believe that one of the Hyd valves is stuck and loading the engine as some have suggested.

the loader valve has stuck in the past, and I may have bumped it more than you would using the loader while working on the parking brake.

I guess just crack the lines to see which one is under pressure?

thank you

 

[Woosterdelt]

I have a video of it cranking and not starting the other day. It was turning over fast and puffing black smoke. Nothing like that today.

 

[Delmer]

The plot thickens... no smoke today??? can you post the video? youtube and link it here.

This is not a simple issue, doesn't add up so far, hence all the questions. And conflicting, make that VARIED suggestions.

 

[Woosterdelt]

I have a mechanic coming out later this week to fix it. I will post the conclusion.

No black smoke today, but the engine is turning over obviously too slow to start.

If anyone wants a video of it cranking emailed to them let me know. I’m not tech savvy enough to post/link them.

Thank you.

 

[Tinkerer]

Videos cannot be posted directly on HEF.
They have be uploaded to a video hosting website like uTube.
Then, copy the url of it and paste here in a reply and the video will be viewable here.
It wouldn't surprise me if the hydraulic pump is your problem.
You could take the filter off and cut it open and look for nasty stuff.

 

[Woosterdelt]

Ok, I'm going to try to post some videos.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1239218953478322

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1427668154395019

Thx

 

[thepumpguysc]

Which is it.. a K or C.??
Or a CK
Is it a CAV /Delphi pump or RoosaMaster /Stanadyne..??
My instructions for running w/o return connector is for a RoosaMaster/Stanadyne pump.!!

 

[thepumpguysc]

The 2nd video sounds damn good..!!
Have u tried moving the pump timing a smidge.??