case 580k 4-390 engine rebuild questions

[case310350]

While I don't really want to I need to rebuild the engine in the case 580k. I noticed that the engine rebuild kits don't have sleeves. So is it normal not to replace them? Any other things tricky about pulling/rebuilding? I have rebuilt engines before, but only 1 diesel engine. Machine has 8500 hrs and in good shape (repined the backhoe and cab is rust free). Series II. If there are reasonable used engine suppliers would go that route as well.

 

[melben]

I don't know about todays prices but a few years back it was very reasonable to get a Case factory reman. The remans could not be told from new engines as they did not show evidence of previous installation , standard bore and all bolt holes looked like fresh cut threads. I suspected at that time that they were new selling as remans. Inflation and all I am sure prices have increased but it would be worth a look.

 

[CMSMOKE]

Those engines do not have sleeves. They are an excellent engine. We had one that got traded with over 12,000 hours on it. It never used any oil. We never even had the valve covers off to adjust the valves!

 

[repowerguy]

These are parent bore blocks so they don't have sleeves. At 8500 hrs it will need a overbore most likely at .50mm to clean up the bore. With winter coming on this would make a nice garage project for the cold weather. These engines are relatively easy to build and parts are cheap also, the only special tool you will need is a torque angle guage for the rod, main, and head bolts.

 

[kshansen]

Where I worked we had one of those 4-390's in a Case 1845 Skid-Steer. Last I knew it had around 6,000 hours on it. It is a 1989 and spends all it's time doing clean up work in a stone quarry, that's over 1/4 of a century of some of the worst abuse any machine can get. Oil and filters changed when ever someone happened to remember, you mean it's been that long!! Also have the Cummins version in a manlift. Just about the worst engines for a mechanic there is, how can I make a living it they don't break down?

 

[melben]

Lol, and JD tried to sell against Case telling our customers it was a "throwaway engine" when they first came out.

We sold hundreds and our experience is the same as you other guys, we did have to replace two rentals when customers got them under water though.

 

[kshansen]

Lol, and JD tried to sell against Case telling our customers it was a "throwaway engine" when they first came out.

We sold hundreds and our experience is the same as you other guys, we did have to replace two rentals when customers got them under water though.

Dang engines that won't run under water, not a good marine engine I take it? Or should I say, submarine, engine?

 

[thepumpguysc]

That engine was a case/cummins colaberation.. engine made by cummins and "sold" to case, the colaberation was called CDC engine Co..
You can buy the exact same engine from Cummins.. a "drop in" reman costs around 3-4k .. + your old engine.. so factor in shipping costs unless your within driving distance to where you can pick up and deliver your own.. there pretty light but you'll want to use a forklift.. it'll fit in the back of a full size p/u truck..
ANY good Cummins person can tell you what the CPL is, from a few #'s off your old engine and injection pump..
THAT IS, if you want to go that route..
You have to factor in the cost of a rebuild.. kit, machine shop costs and your labor and expertise..
They make a REALLY GOOD rebuild manual.. with pictures.. you really cant go wrong by following it..
IF the money was right, I'd give it a go..

 

[zbo2]

I just did the one in my buddies 580 super k. I have never done a diesel before and I have to say it was a piece of cake if you have any engine rebuild experience at all. The cylinders had a very minimum ridge and weren't out of round at all. Gave her a good hone and checked the ring end gaps which were all in the mid range of the specs even the pistons were in great shape. Crank was also in super shape, so it was just rings and bearings, no machine shop work needed except to have the head done. I got a rebuild kit from MaxiForce (625.00) which had everything I needed. So between the rebuild kit and the head work and misc shop supplies it was about 1300.00 bucks......Runs perfect.

 

[case310350]

I just did the one in my buddies 580 super k. I have never done a diesel before and I have to say it was a piece of cake if you have any engine rebuild experience at all. The cylinders had a very minimum ridge and weren't out of round at all. Gave her a good hone and checked the ring end gaps which were all in the mid range of the specs even the pistons were in great shape. Crank was also in super shape, so it was just rings and bearings, no machine shop work needed except to have the head done. I got a rebuild kit from MaxiForce (625.00) which had everything I needed. So between the rebuild kit and the head work and misc shop supplies it was about 1300.00 bucks......Runs perfect.

how many hours were on that engine? Why the rebuild noise? Mine runs very rough until warm so I assume lack of compression

 

[check]

Any engine that can't be in frame overhauled because it doesn't have sleeves or liners IS a throw away engine. It just seems the 4-390 is about the best throw away engine made so far.

 

[zbo2]

no sure on the hours......... front cover bolt came out and trashed the cam and crank gear and snapped the cam and bent a couple valves.... was hard starting when cold out so i just went all the way with it.

 

[Jim D]

no sure on the hours......... front cover bolt came out and trashed the cam and crank gear and snapped the cam and bent a couple valves....

Was that a bolt or was it a dowel pin. There is a gear case dowel pin that is just above the pump gear/cam gear mesh. They were known to fall into the gears on the early engines. There are factory and home made fixes, tabs to hold the pin in the holes.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...9D78BE0F7763387A103457E2E3C66663B&FORM=IQFRBA

 

[joe--h]

Mine runs very rough until warm so I assume lack of compression
Think I'd make damn sure it needed a rebuild, not just assume.
Joe H

 

[Shimmy1]

Mine runs very rough until warm so I assume lack of compression
Think I'd make damn sure it needed a rebuild, not just assume.
Joe H

We had a 6T-590 in a 780C. At 7500 hrs, after several issues with hydraulic pumps locking up and spinning the crank gear, finally the last pump broke the cam. Engine still ran like new, used no oil, and had been doing exclusively loader work for close to 2000 hrs. The "new" reman did not run as good. These engines are near impossible to beat. I would change out air filters, injectors, run the overhead, and have someone that KNOWS what they are doing check the timing. Unless that machine has been ran without an air filter or beat harder than a rental I'd have a hard time believing it needs a rebuild. I would get the tooling to do a compression test when you swap injectors. JMHO.

 

[case310350]

We had a 6T-590 in a 780C. At 7500 hrs, after several issues with hydraulic pumps locking up and spinning the crank gear, finally the last pump broke the cam. Engine still ran like new, used no oil, and had been doing exclusively loader work for close to 2000 hrs. The "new" reman did not run as good. These engines are near impossible to beat. I would change out air filters, injectors, run the overhead, and have someone that KNOWS what they are doing check the timing. Unless that machine has been ran without an air filter or beat harder than a rental I'd have a hard time believing it needs a rebuild. I would get the tooling to do a compression test when you swap injectors. JMHO.

The hard starting and rough running, and smoke when cold is a compression issue, since the motor runs good when warm. But is making some noise, not a rod, but not sure. tough call.

 

[Shimmy1]

Do an overhead. I'll bet you the intakes have about 0.040 and are clicking away and the exhausts are so tight you're losing compression.

 

[zbo2]

Was that a bolt or was it a dowel pin. There is a gear case dowel pin that is just above the pump gear/cam gear mesh. They were known to fall into the gears on the early engines. There are factory and home made fixes, tabs to hold the pin in the holes.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...9D78BE0F7763387A103457E2E3C66663B&FORM=IQFRBA

bolt......