Case 580se Starting problem

[Jud]

Hi folks,
I need some advice in trouble shooting a problem. Will do my best to describe the issue with a 580 se. Having problems trying to start it in the cab in normal start up mode.
. Unit is in neutral, Ignition switch when tried, nothing happens.
. At the starter, you can hear a click type noise.
. Battries are up and charged. Grounds have been checked
. The starter was removed and serviced.
. Note: If you jumper the starter, unit will start right away!

Could it be the neutral starting switch that needs replacing?
Any help with this would be appreciated.

Also need to find a set of op`s, maintenance, parts manuals for this unit, anyone have some for sale at a reasonable price?

 

[Willis Bushogin]

580

Hi folks,
I need some advice in trouble shooting a problem. Will do my best to describe the issue with a 580 se. Having problems trying to start it in the cab in normal start up mode.
. Unit is in neutral, Ignition switch when tried, nothing happens.
. At the starter, you can hear a click type noise.
. Battries are up and charged. Grounds have been checked
. The starter was removed and serviced.
. Note: If you jumper the starter, unit will start right away!

Could it be the neutral starting switch that needs replacing?
Any help with this would be appreciated.

Also need to find a set of op`s, maintenance, parts manuals for this unit, anyone have some for sale at a reasonable price?

It does sound like a neutral switch, but Im not familiar with this machine, if you can find it, jumper it out

I find all my manuals I need, on eBay, or just google and find them. They are usually 1/2 to 1/3 the price
Good Luck

 

[bill onthehill]

When you say it is in neutral position are you talking about the F/R shuttle or transmission? My 580K you need to wiggle the shuttle lever to get it to engage most times. The linkages get some slop and don't always make the switch contact properly. Have you tried holding the key in the start position and moving the shuttle lever?

 

[stock]

Hi folks,
I need some advice in trouble shooting a problem. Will do my best to describe the issue with a 580 se. Having problems trying to start it in the cab in normal start up mode.
. Unit is in neutral, Ignition switch when tried, nothing happens.
. At the starter, you can hear a click type noise.
. Battries are up and charged. Grounds have been checked
. The starter was removed and serviced.
. Note: If you jumper the starter, unit will start right away!

Could it be the neutral starting switch that needs replacing?
Any help with this would be appreciated.

Also need to find a set of op`s, maintenance, parts manuals for this unit, anyone have some for sale at a reasonable price?

This would suggest to me that you still have a starter issue, probably with the solenoid cap,to eliminate this have someone cross the terminals of the starter while you are seated in the cab ,just in case she starts while in gear,
crossing the starter bypasses the safety switches and should never be done with out an operator in the cab

there is two ways to start it at the starter

• from the power supply lead (usually the top one) to a smaller terminal either a screw or spade connnector located below the supply terminal

• or just cross the two large ones with a rather large piece of steel

if the second one works and the first doesn't then the cap is stuffed.
If the first works then there is no need to do the second.

On some wiring systems a second solenoid is fitted on the firing wire from the switch this may be giving you a clicking sound you are hearing but it could be faulty or a fuse on the supply side of this solenoid may be dead..

 

[Jud]

Bill on the Hill,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have tried that item... no go.

 

[Jud]

Stock,
Have done the first corkie dot. That is how I get to start at present.

 

[Goose]

The nippo starters are very voltage sensitive on the activating wire. If the voltage to engage the starte is below 9 volts the starter will just click. Alot of times you can click it 10times and then the starter might engage. Take a volt meter and check the voltage at the small wire at the starter with it hooked to the starter and with it unhooked. It will probably read above 12 volts unhooked and below 9 volts hooked up. If this is the case the simple way to solve the problem is to add a booster relay like a ford starter relay to basicly jump across the terminals like you are doing with the jumper. We use a Case relay but the old 3 post ford relays work also. Just remove the small wire going the the starter and out it on the small post of the booster relay and then make up a couple of 10 gauge wires and run one from the big post on the booster relay to were the small wire was taken off and the other from the battery post on the starter to the other big post on the relay. Then when you go into start you are acivating the small relay which will work at lower voltages and it will send full voltage to the starter.

 

[ScottAR]

My 580D did something similar and the neutral switch wire came
unplugged. Go under the tractor on the right side and once under
kinda sit up between the frame and the shuttle. Should be a two
wire switch looking at you. Make sure it's plugged up.

 

[gggraham]

Take the 3 screws out of the end cap on the pull in solenoid. The clicking maybe the solenoid activating but just not making contact good enough to turn starter. Also see the post by GOOSE. Clean this up real good in the areas shown in diagram sometimes it solves this problem. I just had an old 1845C doing the same thing...cleaned up starter solenoid and works good now.

 

[willie59]

Take the 3 screws out of the end cap on the pull in solenoid. The clicking maybe the solenoid activating but just not making contact good enough to turn starter. Also see the post by GOOSE. Clean this up real good in the areas shown in diagram sometimes it solves this problem. I just had an old 1845C doing the same thing...cleaned up starter solenoid and works good now.

You forgot something Gil;

First, disconnect the negative battery cable at the battery.

Then, take the 3 screws out... :drinkup

 

[bill onthehill]

You forgot something Gil;

First, disconnect the negative battery cable at the battery.

Then, take the 3 screws out... :drinkup

That takes all the fun and excitement out of it!

 

[Russelln]

Oh how I remember this Problem, Been there done that.

I even added a Ford Solenoid to mine before I preformed the real fix.

With two people and a volt meter (VOM) Measure the solenoid wire at the starter with your helper. If the voltage drops below 10 volts you got problems. If you disconnect that wire and turn the key to the start position you will have 12 volts.


Anyway, One major issue that I know of with the 580E or SE is Electrical and the fix is super simple. Helped repair a few of them in my area with the same problem. There is a 8-Pin connector that runs from the main harness from the dash to the Starter solenoid and the alternator and the main 12 volts going up there. This connector is the stupid rubber type (Push on Pull off type) that goes wacky if it gets moisture in it then corrodes (Just like a trailer hitch). It is located under the floor pan (6-Bolts). We disconnect all the Negative battery terminal, then the wiring to the alternator, starter and sensors then we cut that connector off. Crimp Non-Jacketed bullet connectors to them then finish them off by SOLDERING them for the perfect connection with 63/37 Leaded Solder, DO NOT TRUST A CRIMPED CONNECTOR as it will rattle loose in a couple of weeks time, then tape them with Scotch 33 Electrical tape. Once verified all connections are good, Then you need to buy and encapsulate that repair in a Shaken’Seal CK200BSV that the phone companies use for underground direct burial. Load it up with the resin and it is water proof for the rest of its life. Unbreakable for forever sealed.

Problem resolved.

 

[Jud]

To the contributers of this thread and others,
Thankyou for your help. It just takes one of the idea`s to work, thus making it enjoyable to really own a piece of equipment.
I hope that "others" will benifit from the thread as I have.
Doug

 

[gggraham]

Some very knowledgeable people here and all great ideas. You may even find that you have one or two different problems. I think in this thread we have thoroughly covered 580SE starter issues. Including disconnecting the negative battery terminal! haha

 

[Noobtractorguy]

Hey guys! I have a couple of questions regarding a backhoe that my late father in law gave to me. The key when turned makes a clicking sound at solenoid but not at starter. Now power goes from battery to starter but then there is a red wire from the starter to where?? Solenoid?? If so which terminal. I don't have wiring schematics. Will it be indicated on solenoid with letter b.? Thanks for help in advance.. I've tried touching bare end of red wire to various terminals of solenoid and had key turned on fully with clutch engaged and no starting. Is there a way to bypass solenoid.

 

[Delmer]

Hi Noob,

What model backhoe do you have?

In general the first place to look is to see what the battery voltage is when you try to start, run a test lead from the postive battery terminal to the cab and see what the voltage is when you hold the key to start. If it's good there then move the test lead to the solenoid end of the cable, then to the starter side of the solenoid if you can get to it. That will narrow it down a bit.

 

[Noobtractorguy]

Hello, and thanks for replying to message! im not sure what year the tractor is but its a case 580 K. I will try the testing but without the one main red cable hooked up to wherever it goes would be pointless! or not, I don't know--- but I have lots of juice to starter-direct from battery, but there is a heavy red cable coming from starter and it is not attached to wherever it should go--- it must be something important to be such heavy gauge going to starter, and Im assuming that's why the starter doesn't turn--- I must find a home for this cable it has juice in it now and is dangling loose in cab! I think testing before I get this wire hooked up

 

[Delmer]

I need a picture to understand what is going on with that one. Somebody else might be able to understand what's going on, but a picture usually helps.

 

[stock]

IF the battery is fully charged then it a stuck started motor or it the solenoid that burnt out. Try hitting the side of the motor with a hammer this usually dislodges any stuck components, the solenoid well that a change out piece..............

 

[MichaelC2020]

I have a 580 SN, and went thru all the suggested fixes posted here. None solved the issue (power at the solenoid wire from coming the ignition switch when disconnected from the solenoid, but no power when connected to the solenoid). My problem was a 30 pin connector inside the console. Had somehow come loose and re-attaching the connector solved my issue. Thanks to all the suggested fixes (wires, wires, wires), I found my wire problem.