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CASE 680H Cranks but thats it...

OVERTORQUED

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Vintage Restos & occasional Tractors
image.jpg
Supposedly crapped out and took a small trip down driveway into tree and fence. Here it sits. Supposedly fired up and ran a minute then quit again. Does crank, won't turn over. No fuel that we can see coming out lines. Got fuel in the tank. Really don't know any history on it. Mechanical fuel pump correct? If so, we should be able to try external fuel pump right?
 

Tinkerer

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At the angle the machine is sitting is there enough fuel in it to cover the fuel outlet in the tank ?? If there is you could start by checking to see if you have a plugged strainer (#1) in the fuel tank or a plugged check valve (#9) in the fuel line. It doesn't appear to have a lift pump. If they are clear blow out the fuel lines by applying a small amount air through the fuel tank filler cap. If you have a good flow of fuel, hook up a container of clean fuel directly to the injection pump. What caused the machine to end up in the position it is in ?
Here is a link to the online parts book http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr67900ar319688
 

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OVERTORQUED

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Ended up there, from what I understand, because the operator was a little inexperienced and ran out of fuel. So when it quit and started rolling he panicked and bailed. Just on the other side of where it ended up is a very busy two lane through the canyon. Thank god the hoe ended up stuck in the dirt and he managed to put the bucket all the way down before he bailed. This is just what I've been told and was asked to try and get it out. People are amazing... Even some of the amazing ones have no business on heavy equipment. We did run an external pump on it today and got it fired up, down off that steep incline, but then it quit again. Think it's just the battery this time. Getting new one tomorrow and crossing fingers. Still will have some maintenance to do on it seeing as it 'came with the property' they just bought and no one knows history on it. Certain I will be on here again for some help. Thanks for the link and your help.
 

OVERTORQUED

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Got it fired up and ran really good for about 15 minutes. Then it quit again. Added some water because it was low and it does not want to start. Smokes a lot while trying to turn over. Got 2 brand new batteries and it cranks and almost starts. Could it possibly be the water we added has seeped somewhere else (don't want to think head gasket) but maybe that's the smoke? Maybe that was the problem from the start and water doesn't compress. Did filters, drained lines and it's got good fuel. Going to try again tomorrow and see what happens.
 

Tinkerer

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Was the engine idling or at a a higher rpm when it died ? Disconnect either end of the fuel line that is between the secondary filter and the filter that is on the IP, determine if you have a good flow of fuel going into the injector pump. Is the glass filter and screen on the injection pump clean ? There is a primer on the injection pump. Push it up and down a few times. Is the cable that shuts off the injector pump, putting it fully into the run position ? How often do you add water to it ? That could be something as simple as a radiator cap leaking or some other leak like a hose.
 

OVERTORQUED

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It was idling when it died. There is good fuel flow - did see filter had some crap in it so cleaned that out. The cable I believe is working also. Not sure how often water has to be added - new machine to us and don't really know much history. Going to go try to fire it up again and see what happens. Thanks so much.
 

OVERTORQUED

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Thinking here could be a large part of the problem... image.jpgimage.jpg
Starter was sounding funny so took it apart and that's the inside where it had been rubbing. Fix that right up and hopefully it will fire right up.
 

partsandservice

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The starter maybe weak but it did not make the engine shut off. If tinkers diagram is correct for your engine then there should be an external fuel shut off . It must activate and stay so to start. It sounds like it just has air in. That will cause the white smoke. The injector lines should be loosened and engine cranked until fuel bounces out at all injectors . Tighten injectors and it should make some white smoke and then hit. The mechanical pump should eventually be replaced in my opinion. Aftermarket electric fuel pumps don't increase flow as engine rpm and load incrase.
 
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Delmer

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Second the external fuel shutoff. The other suspicion those problems bring up is some random trash floating around in the tank and blocking the outlet, then floating away when the engine dies.

I just can't see a fuel pump killing an engine at idle WITHOUT something else plugged up.
 

OVERTORQUED

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Doesn't that particular motor list 'with electrical lift pump' and 'without electrical lift pump'? I traced line from tank and there is no electric pump. It goes through 2 filters and then right to the thing on the side of injector pump with a primer on it. Is that the mechanical fuel pump? The starter was just drawing the batteries down to nothing on brand new batteries and wouldn't turn it over so that's different issue I would imagine from what ya all are sayin.
 
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Tinkerer

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You are correct that the parts book says may or may not have a lift pump. Yours evidently doesn't. That is why that check valve in the line must be in good working condition. Otherwise gravity will be your worst enemy as far as keeping fuel in the system up to the IP. If that were my tractor I would install a lift pump.
Partsandservice is giving you good advice about air in the injector lines. Crack all four injector nuts one at a time and be sure a solid stream of fuel is coming out of them. Post back and let us know what you find.
Delmer; I guess the screen in the lift pump is meaningless on this tractor.
 
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OVERTORQUED

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Got parts for starter today and rebuilding that this morning. Will do the 4 injector nuts today and let you know how it turns out. Thanks all.
 

OVERTORQUED

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Ok, got starter rebuilt, back together and in. Cracked the injector nuts one at a time and got solid stream of fuel. Turned over way better and wants to start. But then it's back to letting the batteries charge back up because it just doesn't seem to have the juice to do it. I have a video I could somehow post on photobucket or something, where you could hear what it's doing. What are the cold cranking amps supposed to be for the batteries on these things? I think they got reman batteries, maybe they aren't worth a flip already. I don't know... Let me see if I can post a vid and put a link.
 

OVERTORQUED

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Ok couldnt get the vid to work. At the tractor again now and still the same thing. Tried everything you all have suggested and still all it wants to do is just drag batteries down. It ran really good when it ran so its just baffling. Will try cracking lines again. This is crazy.
 

OVERTORQUED

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Just to add, got 3 batteries, two chargers and a car hooked to it and just doesnt turn over fast enough to start it seems. Gotta be something else...
 

El Hombre

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Pull the air cleaner element and have somebody spray diesel fuel into the intake pipe with a small pump sprayer while you crank the engine. Don't hose it in there, if you get too much the engine will run away; couple of teaspoons should be enough to get it started. If it runs while you're giving it shots of fuel in the intake, you have a fuel supply problem and it's not something like low compression.

Then you get to break open the fuel lines and crank the engine and see if fuel is coming out of the fuel line screwed into the injection pump for example. You have to verify where the fuel is getting to or not.

By the way, cranks and turns over are the same thing. As in 'the engine cranks but won't start'. Drives me nuts when somebody confuses cranking function and starting. I used to pull wrenches for a living and the customers would do that all the time. Had to stop them and get the correct story as to what's happening. Big difference where you start to diagnose.....
 

Delmer

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By the way, cranks and turns over are the same thing. As in 'the engine cranks but won't start'. Drives me nuts when somebody confuses cranking function and starting.

Second that, and also, "fire" produces smoke, as in "the engine fired once, but wouldn't run". Of course if you're in a truckstop and wearing the appropriate footwear, then the distinctions cease. :D

One good battery should be plenty to start this engine up. Since you know the starter had problems maybe that is still weak? How cold is it there? even down to 40 it should fire up if it will turn over fast enough that the starter doesn't slow down significantly on each compression stroke.

With a slew of power sources like you have, is your starter warming up after 2 crankings of 15 seconds each? And do the batteries drain down faster than they should with those 2 15 second crankings? How about any battery cable terminals heating up? Others here have suggested a Nippon Denso gear reduction starter as an improvement, that looks like a conventional starter from here, but I could be wrong.
 

OVERTORQUED

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By the way, cranks and turns over are the same thing. As in 'the engine cranks but won't start'. Drives me nuts when somebody confuses cranking function and starting. I used to pull wrenches for a living and the customers would do that all the time. Had to stop them and get the correct story as to what's happening. Big difference where you start to diagnose.....

Ouch... my mistake. You are right.
 
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