Cat 216 skid steer parking brake issues ECM?

[Nerbflong]

I have a 2003? 216 cat ski steer 4nz02280 that is having some fun issues with the seatbelt light and parking brake coming on after about 1 foot of movement.

The machine starts up great every time. The seat switch had been bypassed by the previous owner, and it still looks good. The safety bar switch seems to be working fine as well. The machine has been working fine like this for 3 years that I've owned it.

I can start the machine, seatbelt light goes out after a second and I can disengage the parking brake. I'm able to drive maybe a foot before the seatbelt light flashes and the parking brake flashes and the machine stops moving. Engine is running.

If I restart I can sometimes move it again about a foot before it stops again. If I just sit there and can disable the parking brake it will also start flashing after about 20 seconds.

I have noticed recently that the controls seem extra jerky or that could be me as I don't use it a lot. Its also been smoking a bit more when in use. Coupled with the seatbelt and parking brake problem I'm thinking its the ECM? yikes!

Any thoughts on this? Anyone to recommend for repair? I'm just a homeowner using it for small jobs around the house.

Any help would be appreciated!
located in Rockford MI.

 

[Nige]

First up kudos for posting a Serial Number. It makes things so much easier.

Not surprisingly we've been here before......

Click this LINK for a thread where what sounds to me like the identical symptoms to yours were discussed and subject to at-length troubleshooting. What you will need in addition to an appropriate electrical schematic are the documents attached below because they are a little different for your machine than they were for the 226B on the linked thread. Keep an eye on your messages. I'll send you a schematic.

Once you have gone through the linked thread and had chance to look at the schematic come back and post any additional questions you might have.

 

[Jointery]

User ‘Nige’ and other very seasoned cat veterans will jump in soon. I’ll spare you the lecture on bypassing safety devices on these machines. It is very dangerous.

Now- while the situation that I experienced with my 2000 226 was different, it had some similar issues. You can search my posts to see what I experienced.

Nige and others will guide you to some cat documented testing proceedures. You will need a wiring diagram to start. Then a crash self taught course on reading cat wiring diagrams. A couple of great ytub video’s are out there. Remember this, when reading cat wirining diagrams for these vintage machines; the wire number is printed on each wire. Regardless of the color, the numbers are consistant and make it easier to trace both in the diagram and on the machine.

Like my 2000, your 2003 is an old machine. As such, things are brittle and rusty. Keep that in mind while you gingerly remove, unbolt and disconnect things.

Good luck!

 

[Nerbflong]

Thank you! My apologies, I should have searched for a similar thread first. Duh.
And yes, indeed, the seat switch is an issue I need to address. I hadn't known it was bypassed until I began searching for the cause. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do! Thanks again for the help! I'll report back after I get a chance to check more things. The machine is off at my brother's place, which makes it more fun to diagnose.

 

[Nige]

And yes, indeed, the seat switch is an issue I need to address. I hadn't known it was bypassed until I began searching for the cause.

A quick comment about the seat switch just so you understand. If it is bypassed then under certain condtions the implements can be operated while nobody is sitting in the seat. In the worst of circumstances people have been crushed by the lift arms coming down unexpectedly.

 

[Jointery]

Let us know how it goes. Ask questions here- and learn from these guys. I am a nube myself and these guys walked me thru things. I fought an intermittent interlock issue (flashing seat & bar light causing no propel) for four months. Within a few of hours of joining; these guys had dialed-in on where to go and what to look for.

The serial number specific diagrams and test procedures are paramount in tracing this down.

 

[Nerbflong]

Thanks for the replies so far. And yes I appreciate the safety of having working seat switches. I plan on fixing it once this is solved.

So far working through renr2864-05 on step 6, checking contact 29 to contact 24 I read 20 ohms. However I forgot I had the work tool detent coil disconnected. I realized that after coming home. Doh!

If the machine is cold, I can have control of the drive and boom for about 30 seconds. Then the lights start flashing. Typically in sync but somethings the seatbelt and parking brake alternate.

If I shut down and restart I get control again for about 10 seconds.
restart, I get control for a short time then flashing again. After about 5 restarts it immediately flashes the seatbelt and parking light.

I'll go back later and check.
The ECM looks great, No damage at all.I'll have to take it apart soon I guess.

 

[Nige]

Somewhere in that thread I linked are a number of posts where it was discovered that the test procedure was WRONG. It wouldn’t surprise me if RENR2864 had the same error. Be warned….

 

[Nerbflong]

Okay, that makes sense. Same stumbling block so to speak. So I'm measuring two coils in series! So yeah. I'm thinking module again. Oh well. To send for repair or just buy a remake?
Even amazon sells them!

 

[Nige]

Okay, that makes sense. Same stumbling block so to speak. So I'm measuring two coils in series!

I suggest that you need to have another read through the earlier-linked thread starting from Post #25 on Page 2. The error was confirmed in Posts #55 & #56 on Page 3. Before you go condemning a high-value component such as an ECM I suggest you make sure you've done all the relevant testing and done it right.

If you want a recommendation of a place to buy a replacement ECM drop a PM to the fella who created that linked thread. Whether or not his purchase option is still available under today's import regulations to the US I don't know. FYI a Reman ECM is likely priced around $3k from a Cat dealer.

 

[Nerbflong]

I will reread the thread, good advice.
On cats online store the part is this:

https://parts.cat.com/en/michigan/154-4233

almost 6K. That's crazy.
I wish there were an easy way to bypass and test before spending money on repair or a remake.

 

[Nige]

I wish there were an easy way to bypass and test before spending money on repair or a remake.

The only way I know is to get the loan of a known good ECM for testing purposes.

Also there is a 10R8097 Reman control available at about half the price if my memory serves me correctly. The guy on the other thread got an aftermarket replacement for somewhere around $1k.

 

[Nerbflong]

Does the 154-4233 module control anything on the engine at all with the 216 machines?

 

[Nige]

Does the 154-4233 module control anything on the engine at all with the 216 machines?

Not exactly the engine per se, but it is tied into the start relay circuit and receives power from the key switch when said switch is in the ON position.

Follow wire #307 from the key switch into the Interlock Control and then wire 306 out of the Interlock Control to the start relay. Provided that the engine starts and runs that side of the Interlock Control would appear to be working correctly.

 

[Nerbflong]

Thanks for the help. The Machine starts up flawlessly every time. That has never been an issue.
Wires checked fine.
I did try a replacement ECM module from amazon. It arrived in 2 days. No programming needed. I installed it and experienced the exact same issues.

So my ECM seems fine.
Would air in the hydraulic lines cause this issue? I had replaced the fan motor a month ago and thought I bled all the air out.

I had talked to catepillar and asked if there are codes to read and there aren't.

I'm lost at this point.

 

[Nerbflong]

Just an additional bit of info:
When I was testing it yesterday I was able to run both the drive and the boom. Then after the lights flashed and I had to restart, it only worked the boom. Very odd to me

 

[Nige]

Maybe it is worth pointing out that the Interlock Control you acquired through Amazon is not guaranteed to be in working order. IMO the only way to rule it out is to get hold of a "known good" one, even just for testing purposes. This usually involves borrowing one from a donor machine which I understand is not as simple as it sounds.

 

[Nige]

Okay, that makes sense. Same stumbling block so to speak. So I'm measuring two coils in series! So yeah. I'm thinking module again. Oh well. To send for repair or just buy a remake?
Even amazon sells them!

Going back to this comment. Personally I think it might pay you to dig deeper into the issue of wiring harness integrity and the test steps from REHS2864. Maybe it would help for you to go through those test steps again in order and post your results.

Please bear in mind that in Step 6 where it states "Measure the resistance at the wire harness connector from contact 29 (wire H416-GN) to the following contacts: contact 1, contact 11, contact 13, contact 24, contact 42, contact 47, contact 58, contact 60, contact 62 and contact 70", DO NOT TEST between contacts 29 and 24. You will get spurious results.

Also bear in mind the text error in Step 8 that should read "CHECK THE CIRCUIT OF THE WORK TOOL PILOT SOLENOID FOR A SHORT TO + BATTERY Measure the resistance at the wire harness connector from contact 68 wire 975-WH to the following contacts: contact 1, contact 11, contact 13, contact 42, contact 47, contact 58, contact 60, contact 62 and contact 70."

 

[Jointery]

This is a bit winded but worth mentioning.

Have you carefully inspected the machine chassis to frame and chassis to cab ground points? Including straps, lugs and landing studs? Nige or someone with machine specific knowledge will need jump in here for clarification.

But on my 2000 226, there are two significant ground points. On one end you have a large braided strap sinched down on a ground stud. On the other end of these straps; it also has a number of smaller lugged conductor grounds sinched with the braided strap lug.

Granted your symptoms are somewhat different, grounds could be a contributing factor. My machine would sometimes start and operate perfectly. Then suddenly, it would start and not move. Or suddenly it would stop moving. Then other times it wouldn’t do anything. Not even console lights would illuminate.

It turned out that these ground attachments were significantly rusted and oxidized. In my case, the upper braided ground strap itself was also deteriorated. And the lug connections on each end were compromised by oxidation.

If your 2003 is similar to my 2000; among other things, each of the ECM interlock safety components on my machine are individually grounded in these two locations.

I initially called myself inspecting these grounds. But it wasn’t until I actually removed the nut and washers on the 4 ground studs, that I was able to identify the issue.

Thick paint was hiding the rust and oxidation. BTW, if either of the large ground straps are brownish gray and kind of powdery brittle, it is bad.

Clean the connections thoroughly and apply a no-ox grease to ‘all’ surfaces. Clean stud threads, sinch nuts & washers and apply no-ox. And as HarleyHappy suggested, star washers work well in this application.

 

[Nige]

The alternative method of proving the Operator Interlock Control is to install either (or both) of the controls you have on to another machine that is known to work correctly and see how they perform.