I've just had a look at a friends 289D that develops a miss after running for about 15 minutes. On the second time it did it, I was able to isolate it to No.4 cylinder by doing cylinder cutouts with the laptop. After shutting down briefly, it is good again for a short while & then starts to miss again. Fuel level is ok. Tank cap is ok. Doesn't seem to have restrictions. The machine only has 620 hours on it. (Bought second hand with no prior history) Ser. no. TAW12600. Before I go to the expense of replacing an injector, does anyone have any experience with these Cat3.3B/Kubota common rail engines & have any other suggestions? Thank you.
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Cat 289D Engine miss
- Thread starter DieselFit
- Start date
Nige
Senior Member
See below.
One thing that frequently comes up on HEF is that these engines do not like water and/or dirt in the fuel system.
Has the tank been drained of any water and sediment.?
Relief valve #1 working correctly.? What fuel pressure does it hold.?
Screen inside #6 just below the fuel transfer pump clean.? Replace if necessary - P/N 416-5884.
Have the passages in the fuel filter head all been opened up and either rodded out or blown out with compressed air.? To do this requires all the fittings and blanking plugs to be removed from the head.
Last thing to throw out is that there is an updated fuel transfer pump now used. 416-5886 has been replaced by 552-5534.
One thing that frequently comes up on HEF is that these engines do not like water and/or dirt in the fuel system.
Has the tank been drained of any water and sediment.?
Relief valve #1 working correctly.? What fuel pressure does it hold.?
Screen inside #6 just below the fuel transfer pump clean.? Replace if necessary - P/N 416-5884.
Have the passages in the fuel filter head all been opened up and either rodded out or blown out with compressed air.? To do this requires all the fittings and blanking plugs to be removed from the head.
Last thing to throw out is that there is an updated fuel transfer pump now used. 416-5886 has been replaced by 552-5534.
I had to replace the No.4 injector. (Used a genuine Denso 295050-1980 unit because it was much cheaper than what Cat dealer was supplying.) The local fuel pump shop put the old injector on the test bench & found that it would start playing up & stop injecting once it got hot. It would work ok initially & after it cooled down.
Tree Mulcher
Well-Known Member
I found pre filtering my fuel to 2 microns at my transfer tanks before it goes into the machine has eliminated issues with the fuel system on these machines. Its not expensive to set up and very cheap compared to the cost of fuel system parts on these machines.
Nige
Senior Member
Back in the Good Old Days Cat fuel tank caps had "Buy Clean Fuel - Keep it Clean" cast into them.
That statement is as relevant today as it has always been, probably even more so that it was back then with the latest generations of high-pressure common rail injection systems - yet people still continue to ignore this most basic of requirements for any modern fuel injection system.
That statement is as relevant today as it has always been, probably even more so that it was back then with the latest generations of high-pressure common rail injection systems - yet people still continue to ignore this most basic of requirements for any modern fuel injection system.
Tree Mulcher
Well-Known Member
I would sure like to know how to buy clean fuel today. I have yet to find a fuel supplier that filters fuel before or during delivery.
Nige
Senior Member
I can only speak as a big customer but our suppliers had contractual obligations to deliver fuel to a certain ISO Cleanliness standard and every tanker load had to carry a certificate with the delivery notes certifying same. Irrespective of that we had some pretty hefty filtration systems on our tank farms. We were filtering down to below 1 micron IIRC.
Tree Mulcher
Well-Known Member
My comment was haft joke. I have never been at the level I could dictate those types of demands. None of my local jobbers are interested in filtering bulk fuel deliveries. I have asked repeatedly, and none want to make the investment or slow the flow rates on deliveries. At the end of the day the market is not demanding it.
I would say I have gotten along rather well with my filtration set up with 10 micron water blocking element followed by a 2 micron filter on transfer tanks. I may be at the 1 micron level since I have started oversizing the filters and running them dramatically below the rated flow velocity.
I have had at least 9 of these v3800 engines. I have not replaced any fuel related components outside of the low pressure pumps. No injectors, no high pressure fuel pumps, ETC.
I have one approaching 4,000 hrs that I sent injectors out for testing to rule them out as part of a dpf issue. 16,000 gal of fuel burn which is about double the average fuel burn rate. Injector shop could only detect a minute increase in fuel return rate over a new injector.
Iam sure this is trivial compared to the numbers Nige has experienced.
It has been my experience that the fuel system is the least problematic system and a rock-solid system on these engines. Wish I could say the same for the rest of the engine.
Needless to say I don't think anyone could lose money investing in fuel filtration and I believe my ROI is rather high on fuel filtration.
I would say I have gotten along rather well with my filtration set up with 10 micron water blocking element followed by a 2 micron filter on transfer tanks. I may be at the 1 micron level since I have started oversizing the filters and running them dramatically below the rated flow velocity.
I have had at least 9 of these v3800 engines. I have not replaced any fuel related components outside of the low pressure pumps. No injectors, no high pressure fuel pumps, ETC.
I have one approaching 4,000 hrs that I sent injectors out for testing to rule them out as part of a dpf issue. 16,000 gal of fuel burn which is about double the average fuel burn rate. Injector shop could only detect a minute increase in fuel return rate over a new injector.
Iam sure this is trivial compared to the numbers Nige has experienced.
It has been my experience that the fuel system is the least problematic system and a rock-solid system on these engines. Wish I could say the same for the rest of the engine.
Needless to say I don't think anyone could lose money investing in fuel filtration and I believe my ROI is rather high on fuel filtration.
Nige
Senior Member
But right THERE is the proof that what you are doing works........... Kudos.
Most owners can't even be bothered to drain the water & crud out of the fuel tank every once in a while...!!
Tree Mulcher
Well-Known Member
Nige you are right.
I also double the change interval for OEM fuel filters on most machines. Changing fuel filters every 5-600 hours rather than the 250-300 hrs I had been doing.
This works out to every other oil change for me. No extended oil drains here.
In looking at the cost of oem filters versus the cost of filters on the transfer tank. I am probably at an overall net reduction in fuel filtering cost with cleaner fuel.
I can't complain about the ROI for 2 micron filtration with water removal before the fuel goes in the machine.
You have perked my interest On ISO cleanliness. I might pull some samples and see how they test.
My apologies to the OP for the hijack.
I also double the change interval for OEM fuel filters on most machines. Changing fuel filters every 5-600 hours rather than the 250-300 hrs I had been doing.
This works out to every other oil change for me. No extended oil drains here.
In looking at the cost of oem filters versus the cost of filters on the transfer tank. I am probably at an overall net reduction in fuel filtering cost with cleaner fuel.
I can't complain about the ROI for 2 micron filtration with water removal before the fuel goes in the machine.
You have perked my interest On ISO cleanliness. I might pull some samples and see how they test.
My apologies to the OP for the hijack.
Nige
Senior Member
You should not be apologizing for a thread hijack IMHO. The OP should be thanking you for reminding him what he SHOULD be doing..........
Nige
Senior Member
I can't remember what the target ISO Code is for fuel (as used in a common rail engine) off the top of my head. I'll need to look it up.
Nige
Senior Member
18/16/13 (4 micron, 6 micron, 16 micron)
Most large-scale operators with decent water extraction/filtration are getting somewhere in the range of 13/11/6.
Micah 1989
Member
289D S/N TAW10455
I'm having a different issue but same system. I was running my machine and it started losing power then died. This all happened within 1 minute. I replaced fuel filter and screen. Now it will fire then die immediately. The transfer pump has voltage and I can hear it running and it filled up the fuel filter. I also checked fuel flow from filter to high pressure fuel pump. I'm wondering what the relief valve pressure should be. I will be taking the filter head off and cleaning it. I also am wondering where the tank drain is. There is no codes that I can see. Is there anything else I should be looking for.
Thanks
Micah
Last edited:
Nige
Senior Member
There are 2 styles of tank drain plug. Look under the rear of the machine either in the centre or the LH corner.
After you changed the filter & screen did the filter bowl fill up completely with fuel at the first cycle of the key.?
Nige
Senior Member
The attached shows the drains for both styles of fuel tank.
Micah 1989
Member
The filter filled up on first cycle. I have cleaned the filter housing and still having the same problem.
Nige
Senior Member
Was there any water in the bottom of the filter bowl.?
Micah 1989
Member
When I changed the fuel filter I thought I saw a little. But it didn't register at the time so I'm not positive.