Cat 305 CR Engine Help Needed

[SanDiego]

2004 Cat 305CR: Engine Mitsubishi K4N. I took the engine to be rebuilt. Got a call from the shop saying the price was going to be $9,000...ish! Guy told me it was very very bad. Yup, I am that guy who purchased someone else's piece of junk, not knowing it was a piece of junk. Looking for another engine, but the K4N is hard to find. Is there another engine that will work in this machine? Thanks for any help I can get.

 

[Tyler d4c]

That doesnt sound bad compared to a new engine from cat

 

[SanDiego]

The shop guy told me it was really bad. Also, he said there has been an internal fire? Not the good fire…either. Do you think it’s worth putting money into that engine?

 

[Tyler d4c]

With out laying ones own eyes on it its anyones ones opionion against the next

 

[Nige]

Do you have any photos of the damaged components now that the engine has been disassembled.?

Did the shop give you any sort of report, written or verbal, explaining how the engine failed.?

 

[reganj]

Do you have confidence in that shop or do you think you are getting bent over?
Second opinion from another shop??

 

[Junkyard]

I’ve been into those little engines. Honestly $9k for one to be rebuilt doesn’t sound far off. I had over $4k in parts the last one I did, don’t recall what I paid the machine shop to bore it and check the head.

 

[Tags]

Not knowing what you paid for it makes it kind of hard to say if you should put the money into it. How many hours does the machine have? What kind of condition is the rest of the machine in if the engine hasn’t been maintained properly? Is it a cab machine or an open ROPS? Are you just using the machine around your house or are you trying to make a living with it? Answers to those questions will help make a decision I would think. The cost of a new one of those machines is probably around $80-$90,000. I would think if the rest of the machine is in good shape and you put 9000 into it and you didn’t pay too much for it to start, it may be worth it.

 

[HarleyHappy]

Would love to hear what “really bad” means. Without knowing that, it’s hard to know anything else.
Did you get screwed or did you know it had issues?

 

[SanDiego]

I probably paid to much for it...$31,000 came with 5 buckets. I had CAT look at it twice, first time they said it was just getting air in the fuel around the fuel filter mountaing bracket so they replaced it. Got it home and it was not fixed. They sent a tech out and he looked at it for over an hour, then on the phone over and hour. All he could say was, I think we need to tear into the hydrauylics so bring it back in and we will start tearing it apart.

I think the machine is in decent shape, has some hydraulic leaks here and there. But, I also thought that when I purchased it as well. So, I can not give you a good answer about that the rest of the machine.

I got the machine to cleaned up my ranch - fence lines are over grown with cedars and I was tired of killing my back. I also, thought I could possibly make some money on the side with it to help get some return on investment. I like cleaning up over grown properties.

I did not know it had an issue with the engine. Seems the Mitsubishi K4N is a unicorn. Hard to find a used one unless you go across the pond. Have no idea if that is a good idea or not.

I think the shop knows what they are doing. They rebuild a bunch of engines. They said it had a "bunch" of sludge had to be removed

 

[Nige]

I think the shop knows what they are doing. They rebuild a bunch of engines. They said it had a "bunch" of sludge had to be removed

In the basis of that very vague statement I would question their competence, at least until they give you a verbal or written report explaining the exact current state of the engine and what it needs in parts & labour to put it in top-top working condition.

Personally I’d rather work with a known quantity than risk buying a used POS takeout from somewhere else, especially from outside the country. YMMV.

 

[SanDiego]

Thank you all for the information. I have felt so lost on what to do.

I have a couple of questions. Since this engine is rare, is there another diesel engine that would work?

Also, since there is a reported internal fire, could one report that on insurance?

Thank you again.

 

[Nige]

Also, since there is a reported internal fire, could one report that on insurance?

That’s the first time that’s been mentioned. More details please, including any history of engine operation during your ownership up to the point at which it was removed. Engines don’t generally catch fire from the inside.

Since this engine is rare, is there another diesel engine that would work?

Do that and your machine becomes a Frankenstein that no-one will be interested in buying should you ever decide to sell.

 

[Nige]

In the basis of that very vague statement I would question their competence, at least until they give you a verbal or written report explaining the exact current state of the engine and what it needs in parts & labour to put it in top-top working condition.

Let me put it another way. If they plan to present you with a $9000 invoice for rebuilding your engine the least they can do is provide you with a “$9000 story” to justify that invoice. That document should contain as a minimum:-

1. A detailed tear down report identifying what caused the failure and including a description (photos if possible) of the actual condition of all the major components - cylinder block, crankshaft, camshaft, rods/pistons, cyl head, valves, turbo, etc, etc.

2. An itemised list of the required spare parts required for the rebuild, each one individually priced and with information whether the part in question is genuine OEM or aftermarket. If a part is aftermarket they should include info on what brand it is.

3. Details of any external services required for the rebuild. As an example sending the crankshaft out to another shop for re-grinding.

4. Total number of labour man hours and the hourly rate.

 

[SanDiego]

Thank you Nige!

 

[Junkyard]

The K4N is a s/n prefix that tells the world it’s an engine for a Cat application so once another Mitsubishi supplier hears that there’s nothing they can or will do. I tried looking back to see if I could find the info on another engine that is the same as the K4N and couldn’t find it. I know it’s used in a lot of marine stuff for generators. I spent a ton of time looking for an engine that would easily interchange and I never could find one.

Based on firsthand experience I’d bite the bullet and get parts from Cat. They sell oversize pistons, rings and undersize bearings if the crank should need turned. There will be some time involved in getting all of them here, I had to wait on some stuff that was across the pond. In fact, the cam plug in the back of the block was nowhere to be found so I had one machined.

 

[Nige]

The K4N is a s/n prefix that tells the world it’s an engine for a Cat application

I thought it was the Mitsubishi engine model designation.? The ones I’ve seen had K4N cast on the cylinder block.

Google Search

 

[Junkyard]

Based on all the calls I made the minute they heard K4N they were like nope can’t help ya we know that’s in a Cat. I tried several places looking for pistons and whatnot. A place down on the gulf told me another prefix that matched it but I don’t recall what it was, October 2021 was when I built that little motor for a friend.

 

[Nige]

Sounds as though a Parts Manual might be a good investment.

@SanDiego - what is the machine Serial Number.?

 

[SanDiego]

00305CDGT00201