Cat 3204 overhaul - which bolts are critical to replace?

[Welder Dave]

I think it was pretty rare on mine. The 16.5 hours before failure is the puzzling part.

 

[OzDozer]

Maybe look at the teeth in the root area with a magnifying glass or use a dye penetrant crack detector kit

Yep, already examined them with a magnifying glass, as mentioned above. Crack testing is next, when I can find someone with a crack tester, who isn't going to rip me off for a simple crack test.

 

[Welder Dave]

Magnaflux or dye penetrant shouldn't be too expensive to have done if you take it to them. Dye penetrant kits are usually in the $30-$50 range depending what brand. It doesn't really matter what brand though. You just have to carefully to follow the proper procedures.

 

[cat951b]

Hi OzDozer!

I found this page of yours and our problem is really very similar with both bearing and piston breakage. With such a difference that my 3rd piston broke.

 

[Welder Dave]

Just an update - I've bitten the bullet and purchased a full set of new IPD conrod bolts and nuts. I just don't want to risk another engine rebuild caused by just one original bolt failing, after it was re-used - even though it met Cat guidelines for re-useability.

I'm trusting that IPD have a good manufacturing source. They don't clearly state where their products are actually made.
The full Out-of-Frame gasket set I received from IPD hasn't got a big American flag on it, as I thought it would!

The IPD 3 ring pistons are still making their way here - and I've also ordered a full set of new IPD intake and exhaust valves for the cylinder head.
Surprisingly, IPD in Sydney have these in stock - but Cat have to ship them in, if I order genuine!

There wasn't a huge saving between IPD and Cat valves, about AU$10 each - but it all adds up.
I ordered new little end (wrist pin) bushings from Cat, on 12th May - and here it is, the end of May, and they still haven't arrived!

They said "5-15 days" (from Melbourne on the East Coast) when I placed the order. I think that's a pretty poor showing on Cat's behalf.
I know all shipping is still a bit slow, but if they really were in Melbourne, that's pathetic. Even if they were in Singapore, it shouldn't take any more than about 4-5 days to get them to me.

Meantimes, the cylinder head reconditioning has been an interesting exercise. I dropped the head off at a big company repair shop, and left instructions to "clean, strip and quote".
They said they were "understaffed" and it would be a week and half before they could get to it.

3 weeks later, out of the blue, with no other contact, I get an email with a repair quote of AU$2,400!!
The quote was simply for replacing EVERYTHING!!
New valves, new inserts, install thin wall guide sleeves, all new springs - nothing was salvageable, according to this quote!

Furious, I raced over to the business and asked what was the story behind the massive cost?
They immediately got very defensive. "Oh, we've checked and tested and measured everything, and it's all worn out!! Everything needs replacing!"

"Are you using Cat re-useability guidelines in your checks and repair quoting?", I asked. "This is a head from an engine that started first kick, and ran like a top!"
The answer came back - "We don't need Cat re-useability guidelines, we've been in business for 50 years, and we know what we're doing!"

"Yeah, you know what you're doing, alright!!", I retorted. Treating every client like they're a mining company, and cost is no object, just replace every single component!! Save you having to repair anything!! I can buy a complete new aftermarket head for less than AU$2400!!
Just give me the head back, and let me know what I owe you for the strip and quote!"

So, next thing, he presents me with a bill for AU$638!! For a requested strip and quote?!
I go through it, and it's got listed - 2 crack tests, 1 pressure test, all new stainless core plugs, an acid bath, a freight charge of $20, and an "environmental levy" of another $20!!

I said, "This was supposed to be just a strip and quote? But you've done a heap of tests and a pressure check, and already started installing new components!!"

"Well, we had to do all that, so we could quote!", was the reply. I didn't even ask what the freight charge was for, I was so disgusted.
So they loaded the head onto my ute, and I start to inspect it - and it still has a heap of corrosion inside the waterways!!

So much for their "acid bath"!! They dumped the head in an automated parts washer, and that warranted an "acid bath" charge!!

I took the head back to my shop and made up a citric acid bath, and dropped the head in it for 4 days.
After the 4 days, I pulled it out and pressure-washed it, and it STILL had scale around the exhaust ports!
I chiselled the scale out and I've dumped it back in the bath for another couple of days. By then, the head WILL be acid-bathed and clean!

Since then, I've found a local small reconditioner who is willing and eager to clean up the inserts and install the thin-wall bronze bushings.
No quote or estimate has been provided yet, until I drop it off to him, later this week - but I'm assured the charges won't be anything like the level of the other company! You live and learn!!

Here's a few photos of the head after the first dip in the citric acid bath, and after the pressure wash.
I tried to get a couple of photos of the scale inside the exhaust ports, but it's difficult to see it, as everything is the same colour. You can see where I've been chiselling the scale loose.

The dirty colour is just flash rusting after the pressure wash. When I'm finished, I spray the bare metal with a weak solution of phosphoric acid, and it leaves a nice phosphate coating on the metal, that protects it.

I was just re-reading this thread. It's a little bit like my experience with the auction house except it was hosing you for payment. You go to what appears to be an established and reputable business and it turns out you're dealing with morons who don't own their mistakes and you get shafted in the end. I bet you would have liked to have dropped the head on somebody's foot and left it there. I don't know if there's a way to tell you're dealing with shysters, especially if they have good reviews. In my case maybe. I was talking about some previous auction experiences with the owner. I told him about a couple shady deals at 1 auction I attended with my partner. His response was sometimes it's not the auctioneers fault but his employee(s) who mess up. In hindsight I should have paid more attention to his statement. He is the captain of the ship, he should be holding his employee's to a high standard and checking they are doing things right. You can't just blame the employee's and use it as an excuse like too bad so sad.

 

[Drag racer]

I was just re-reading this thread. It's a little bit like my experience with the auction house except it was hosing you for payment. You go to what appears to be an established and reputable business and it turns out you're dealing with morons who don't own their mistakes and you get shafted in the end. I bet you would have liked to have dropped the head on somebody's foot and left it there. I don't know if there's a way to tell you're dealing with shysters, especially if they have good reviews. In my case maybe. I was talking about some previous auction experiences with the owner. I told him about a couple shady deals at 1 auction I attended with my partner. His response was sometimes it's not the auctioneers fault but his employee(s) who mess up. In hindsight I should have paid more attention to his statement. He is the captain of the ship, he should be holding his employee's to a high standard and checking they are doing things right. You can't just blame the employee's and use it as an excuse like too bad so sad.

I don't like auctiond generally, we have one that has people in audience to drive up prices.

 

[Welder Dave]

Shill bidding is illegal in public auctions but still happens. Some auctioneers are shady too and have people in the audience and even ghost bids out of nowhere. Here internet auctions can pretty much do whatever they want. I'd much rather have a reserve than bid my own stuff up like the auction house I went to encouraged. Then they gave away the 3 most valuable lots that had a reserve. Bang head.