Cat 977L - overheated it, and now water in cylinder 1 (Cat 3306 engine)

[Nige]

In hindsight, I should have bought the thick "book" style. Just as my mechanic suggested.

Pick up that eBay one I linked for $32. It will probably be worth it.

Those thumb drive "manuals" (generally Eastern European knockoffs) are in my experience universally disappointing and usually a complete waste of space - as you have found. I still fail to comprehend why anyone could think that for $65 they can get hold of the equivalent of what the factory sells for maybe $1k.

Here's a used paper service manual on eBay. Search for Caterpillar Publication REG00635, there will be others available.

 

[bam1968]

I have 2 PDF service manuals that I use quite often that are pretty much exact copies of the paper manuals. They are for Komatsu D65 EX-12 and D65 EX-15 dozers. That being said I also have purchased a couple that were a complete waste of time and money to say the least. I now only buy the paper manuals. The service manuals may seem expensive but if you are planning on doing any work yourself on these machines they are a 'must have' in my opinion.

 

[crane operator]

I love paper manuals. Even if I buy a factory PDF because it's all they offer, I will get that printed and put in a binder .

Or eBay for used manuals

 

[HarleyHappy]

I have tried the lap top or I-pad out in the shop working on stuff but feel so much more at ease, lugging a big thick book, bitching about the binder rings catching on the pages, because I am flipping too much paper.
Putting on my glasses and sipping a cup of coffee and reading pulp.
Will never buy anything, other than real paper manuals.
Will admit, the cost can be prohibitive but generally reclaim the costs in resale.
If the buyer doesn’t want to spend the extra to get the manuals, post them on FB marketplace or E-bay.

 

[bucktowngrading]

Good day gents....
I recently aquired a 977L (along with a 931B - and love'em as they have 4-in-1 buckets). However, when I took posession of it off the trailer I had to drive it from dropoff location down into a canyon and back up to my house via a steep switch back. About a mile long dirt path. My 1200ft long driveway is concrete and steep up/down with turns. Not nice for a semi with lowbed.

I didn't check the coolant (or any fluids actually) before doing this... but the 977 had run fine when being worked on for cylinder seals and other "fixes" before I took posession. It was part of the deal.

When I was coming UP towards the back of my property, it started to get hot. I was in 2nd (yes, my mistake - new operator/owner issue) but couldn't stop (too steep). I idled it down, sat and let it cool down, then moved the last 20feet to a flat switchback turn. It was about 85 degrees out that day.

I came back that night, now only 55-60 degrees and put 4gal of water/coolant in the rad. Drove it up to it's resting spot (longer than the first leg and this time in 1st gear), and later added another 6gal to "fill" the rad. That last run up to the resting spot it never got hot or even too warm. However, when I went to start it the day or two later... it blew water out the exhaust. It was pressurizing the radiator too (cap off, water is blowing out the cap - not just water pump movement).

Now... the head is off, and no tell-tale visible signs of it just being a head gasket. But cyl 1 was full of water. Also, the precup on cyl 3 was loose. Finger tight loose.

I'm in San Diego.... anyone know of a place to get the head checked? Or, would it be better to just buy a reman head and go from there? I'm hoping the cylinders are okay and we don't have a cracked block. The pressure in the rad was quite a bit... seemingly more than just a crack could enduce. But... I'm not a mechanic, it just seems like common sense.

If I buy a reman head.... know of any places with such?! My mechanic knows, and is waiting for me to call local machine shops. But they aren't too many around anymore. Plus, it's Christmas Eve!

THOUGHTS from the 3306 experts?!

This is almost certainly a combustion-to-coolant failure caused by overheating, most likely a warped or cracked head and/or blown head gasket, with the loose precup strongly indicating loss of proper clamping. Have the head pressure-tested and checked for warp before spending money, because the symptoms fit combustion gases entering the cooling system far more than a minor crack or simple gasket swap.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

Good day gents....
I got word from the machine shop.

My "pre-cups" are bad, and so is the lower metal washer.

It'll need O-Rings, pre-cups, and that bottom washer.

... the good news? No cracks (it was magnafluxed) and no other head issues!!!! PHEW!!

Grab a new head gasket, and the above... and it'll be going back together soonly.

 

[Nige]

The only thing to say at this point is to make sure that you get the correct parts. There is no guarantee that the parts for a D333C (which you have) are the same as those for a 3306 (which you thought you had). Did you pick up the correct Parts Manual for your Serial Number.?

 

[Coaldust]

The fuel nozzles often get damaged when an overheat like that occurs, as well.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

.......There is no guarantee that the parts for a D333C (which you have) are the same as those for a 3306 (which you thought you had)............

I understand what you've told me, but the mechanic who is doing the work (not the machine shop) has confirmed I do have a 3306. He also rebuilt this 977 some years ago, so I trust his knowledge and experience.

 

[Nige]

It wasn’t just me. To the best of my recollection at least three different members on this thread including myself have told you the same thing. Are we all wrong.? The 11K4920 plate on the block indicates it is a D333C. The parts you are looking for may be the same for both engine models but I can’t confirm that right now.

This always seems to throw everyone....the engine is actually a D333c (4-3/4" bore), forerunner to the 3306. Check for an all cast water pump. A 3306 water pump will have a large rectangular cover plate.

 

[bccat]

I understand what you've told me, but the mechanic who is doing the work (not the machine shop) has confirmed I do have a 3306. He also rebuilt this 977 some years ago, so I trust his knowledge and experience.

Why don’t you take some pics of the engine from all sides, that’ll will save us & you some headaches, cheers

 

[tctractors]

The 333C and the 3306 PC are very similar to look at, they both have the same bore and stroke with most of the parts also being common to both builds, the rocker box cover is the same but the easiest way of telling is the water pump, the 333C is high mounted with the 3306 being lower mounted, so stick up a few snaps of the water pump and them that know will tell you what you have without doubt, the metal washer that seats the chamber is called a Gasket and comes in 4 sizes to locate the glow plug in a range target.

 

[Nige]

Attached the parts lsting for a cylinder head as fitted to D333C machine engines with Serial Numbers between 11K3919 and 11K5050. It may help.

 

[oldtom]

I’ve been saying that right from the start. Please back and read Post #9 carefully.

It is an L, just a very early one. Again from Post #9 the first L built was machine S/N 11K3919.
I wrote 977K in Post #14 above where I should have put 977L. My apologies for that mistake.

If you are referring to Bob/Ont who was very knowledgeable on this line of machines then he passed away a few years ago.

hi Nigal was ,there a change in head bolt Dia betean 333,and the 3306

 

[Nige]

hi Nigal was ,there a change in head bolt Dia betean 333,and the 3306

Not that I can see. One of the bolt Part Numbers, #24 on the illustration below, appears to be slightly longer on the 3306 than on the D333C but no difference in diameters. @tctractors or @Old Magnet may have more information.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

Why don’t you take some pics of the engine from all sides, that’ll will save us & you some headaches, cheers

It's all covered up at the moment... and, as I said... I'm trusting my mechanic, the same one who's been working on this 977 for the last 20+yrs. He is who introduced me to the owner, who I bought a 931B from as well (package deal).

He's also who as I said, rebuilt this 977 engine 15yrs ago. I trust him wholeheartedly.

Am I saying ya'all are wrong?? No... just misinformed on THIS 977L I guess. Once it's back up and running, I'll let ya'all know.

Any advice on best parts house to order from?
I'm thinking to order from "https://gtengineparts.com"... has anyone used them?

Thanks again.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

........
Any advice on best parts house to order from?
I'm thinking to order from "https://gtengineparts.com"... has anyone used them?

Thanks again.

I ordered the parts... hoping to see them by Friday of this week (23rd). I'll get them to the machine shop, and hope to have the 977 running by end of the month if not first week of Feb.

I'll update when that time comes. I'm sure you're all on pins and needles. HAHA.

 

[JohnnyAirtime]

I got the head back last week....
Sure enough, the pre-cups were leaking at the base just above the sealing metal washers. Looks like years of corrosion. We replaced all the pre-cups, seals, and the valve seals/retainers. No cracks or other issues to speak of.

BTW, the engine block is stamped; 2P960

... so to say, it's truly a 3306 just as my mechanic has said since day1... is correct.

Also as I said before; The tag on the engine block and on the tractor (behind pedals) is showing the same s/n of; *11K4920* Not sure whatever that means to the 'experts' if it's wrong or right.

The truck with a boom who does the "heavy lifting" isn't my "mechanic" and was off all last week. I'm trying to get him back this week to see about gettin'er back together.

I had to run my 931B this last weekend to move some dirt/rocks on my property. Sure would have like that 977 bucket to use! Plus the 977 operates so much easier than the 931 (with a sticky left pedal).

 

[Coaldust]

Thanks for the update.

 

[pittsburgh cat man]

I think I would pull the panel off the back of the machine by the battery and see if return spring is there