cat series differences?

[CarterKraft]

Hi, Unimog.


Another BIG plus was that we could do a LOT of our own repairs on the 'B'. About all we could do on the 'C' was services and hose repairs, because of those damned electronics. On the 'B', you could tilt the cab to get at things under it. The 'C' cab didn't tilt.

As I said, I've only operated those 2 x 953's but if they are any indication, I'd reckon Cat went backwards with that 'update'(?)

I can't aggree entirely because the HPCU (hydrostatic transmission) in a B or older model is a work of art and cause many hours of heart ache if improperly serviced.

Were as the C- series are more complicated electronically they are simpler in operation. 2 pumps 2 motors, a pilot valve to actuate them.

Now a D-series is twice again more complicated because of the Electro-hydraulic controls.

 

[Deas Plant]

Hi, CarterKraft.
Welcome to the forum.

We were and still are smart enough to know that servicing and adjusting the transmission is something best left to the experts. About all we do there is oil and filter changes and hose/pipe replacement. But transmissions are not the only things hiding under that cab.

Now I have a question for you. Have you ever had to replace the main pressure hoses from the transmission to the drive motors on either a 'B' or a 'C'? If I had to choose between the two, I'd take the 'B'. 'Cos you CAN tilt the cab. Those hoses are one of the few real PITA's in the rear-engined loader range and I've NEVER been able to understand why Cat didn't put a little more effort into making them easier to get at. Having a supported steel pipe for the first half of the distance from the 'tranny' would solve the problem. I have suggested that to my current employer but so far none have been changed to such a set-up, in spite of about 3 of these hoses being replaced since I suggested it. We have 5 x 943's and 3 x 953's now.

 

[CarterKraft]

Okay, you might have reached a stale mate there. I love the B and prior for the tilting cab feature, but the there is allot more room to work around the pumps and motors on the C because of the lack of the HPCU taking up all the space. If I remember correctly the last pressure hose I replaced on a "B" was a pain in my tail. Just recently I changed a hose on a BBD C series and it was a piece of cake, minus the split belly pans I can't stand.



Friday night I had to work on my first D-series and I think it has the best of both worlds, a tilting cab and no HPCU. Also no split belly pans.

 

[RollOver Pete]

Looks like the 951 is about ready to go over
Junior...
There IS a huge difference between a Case dozer and a full bucket stuffed into a hard bank.
Posing for the camera also helps...

 

[steelwire]

Another BIG plus was that we could do a LOT of our own repairs on the 'B'. About all we could do on the 'C' was services and hose repairs, because of those damned electronics. On the 'B', you could tilt the cab to get at things under it. The 'C' cab didn't tilt.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Friday night I had to work on my first D-series and I think it has the best of both worlds, a tilting cab and no HPCU. Also no split belly pans.

What does HPCU stand for? And what's the point of the belly pans (any reason to have split them in the first place)?

You said you had to work on a D-series already... any more coming in broken? What was the issue with the first?

 

[Deas Plant]

Personal perceptions.

Hi, CarterKraft.
I guess it's all a matter of perception but I always thought those split belly pans were an excellent idea. Sure, the hinges would often give up after a bit of (ab)use but I re-build them a bit heavier than the originals and have no further trouble with them. In fact, a Cat hose fitter working on one of our machines last week noticed the modified hinges (I'd already been there, done that.), said he liked it and was going to do the same to any busted hinges that he encounters from here on.

Quite aside from the above, I always thought it was easier to remove/replace those hinged and split belly pans on the rear-engined Cat track loaders than the ones on the Cat D5B that weren't hinged.

Just my 0.02.

 

[Deas Plant]

Another strike against the 'C' series.

Hi, Folks.
Yesterday I came across another reason why the Cat 953B is a better machine than the 953C. Our C ran out of hydraulic power with NO visible oil leaks. The immediate suspect was/is a failure of the hydraulic pump or pump drive. So far, so good. Now we come to the DUMB bit.

This machine has one sytem supplying oil to both hydraulics and transmission. If you attempt to move it in these circumstances under its own power, it would appear that you risk spreading any metal in the shared oil right through both systems. Great. Brilliant. Just what we needed - an easier way to cause more damage and increase the work needed to get it going again.

We got around it by pulling the drive shafts in the planetary final drives and pushing it out of the way with another machine.

 

[Sparffo]

hi deas,
on the other hand what i said before, although rear engined loaders are seem not balanced front engined loeders doesn't make it, like the third and fourth picture below(opposite of the first and second) see how balanced while handle the bulldozer.

Deas is right on spot with his comment! if any front engine loader would shift as fast as a new machine, it would probably tip even easyer...
try to operate a bobcat with a little bit too hevy load, then youl know!

on the other picture where the 951 lifts the case 1050, there is also operating tecnique to keep it from standing on its toes!
if the 951 operator would put in reverse there, he would be thrown out of the seat like a nasa rocket! but when he is having forvard traction it helps to keep the rear low
I could bet my head that a new style loader has it's wight more back than the old front engines! :drinkup

 

[honest outlaw]

I learned on the 955's then went to a 953A that's what everyone round here calls the first series in the u.s. the 'A's started in 1980 and were built until 1992. the 'B's were made '93 until '95. the 'C's started in '96 :Banghead never was a big fan of the 'c's even though i spent quite a bit of time on several different one's. i currently own a 'b' with over 12000 hrs on it. it is a good un':drinkup:notworthy as for the balance issue,it is a whole lot easier to stand a front engine machine on its nose than a rear engine. I've been told by cat salesman that a 953 'a' 'b'or 'c' is designed to crawl forward down a 45 degree bank with a full bucket of dirt and not tip.........just don't throw in park.:usa:notworthy

 

[AtlasRob]

that a 953 'a' 'b'or 'c' is designed to crawl forward down a 45 degree bank with a full bucket of dirt and not tip.........just don't throw in park.:usa:notworthy

even if you've got your seatbelt on :cool2

 

[biggixxerjim]

Hi, Unimog.
There was one more VERY user-friendly difference between the 953B and the 'C' that I operated. The 'B' had the hoist and crowd controls on the one joystick. I LOVED that.

Actually, I believe that ever since the B series came out, customers had a choice between a single lever and dual levers. Ive run B's with both twin and single stick bucket controls. Ive even seen a C with twin lever controls.

I actually prefer to run the twin sticks, but only when set up in wheel loader configuration (close stick is for bucket, {forwards curl out back curl in} and far stick is for boom). On a 4-1 or side dump, the furthest stick operates 3rd valve.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

What happens in park?

Or do I not want to know...

 

[Deas Plant]

What happens in park?

Hi, Tigerotor77.
In the situation described by Honest Outlaw, crawling down a 45 deg. slope with a full bucket, if you throw the machine into park, you are highly likely to find yourself conducting a detailed, CLOSE-UP inspection of the windscreen.

Then there is a little putty knife that pops out of a hidden slot at the bottom of the windscreen and scrapes you off the windscreen so that the next operator can see where they are going. Not too many people know of this wonderful piece of forethought and planning by the Cat designers. LOL.

 

[AtlasRob]

Hi, Tigerotor77.
In the situation described by Honest Outlaw, crawling down a 45 deg. slope with a full bucket, if you throw the machine into park, you are highly likely to find yourself conducting a detailed, CLOSE-UP inspection of the windscreen.

Then there is a little putty knife that pops out of a hidden slot at the bottom of the windscreen and scrapes you off the windscreen so that the next operator can see where they are going. Not too many people know of this wonderful piece of forethought and planning by the Cat designers. LOL.

Aw you beat me too it Deas, but did it much better style as usual :notworthy
I was going to say think of it as an emergency brake with the expected repercussions

 

[Deas Plant]

Thank you.

Hi, AtlasRob.
Thank you. I try. Some folks say I'm very trying. I'm not sure what they mean. LOL.

 

[Burnout]

Ahhh even when you throw them in park they don't stop quite that fast.... I have been there and done that. Now if you wanna throw er in reverse... that is another story.

Deas... that putty knife you mentioned... I actually did know about that one. I got the optional scented putty knife. After it scrapes you off, it mists a nice scent of royal pine to mask the inevitable odour of your now brown shorts.

 

[Deas Plant]

Between park and reverse?????????????

Hi, Burnout.
I wear brown underwear so nobody gets to see the fear. LOL.

In my experience, the Cat hydrostatic loaders stop quicker if thrown into park than they usually do if thrown from one direction to the other due to the shock reducing effect of the valving in the transmission. When thrown straight into park, the hydraulic brakes come on rather quickly.

I'm rather partial to wintergreen myself, or aniseed.

 

[Burnout]

I think they only stop like that when their new... our 973's don't stop worth a crap, and the C series have a roll feature... many manholes have been hit by our guys jumping in a C and not knowing they stop right away when grading near them.

Now if you really want a show.... hit the center brake in one, they'll stop in a real hurry. The windshield on mine got broken 3 weeks ago, I had to run the 385 so they let a new guy run my machine. He has been operating a 977L for a few months, he went over a little hill, slid forward on the seat and both feet went down on the steering pedals. He then left the seat and had a conversation with the windshield... I believe it went like this.....
Operator; la di dah di dah oh look a hill
973; c'mon buddy I dare ya
Operator; OH....fudge (yes he said fudge, we don't curse at Sureway...lol)
973; Your stupid buddy
Operator; Ow

There you have it... a lovely conversation. Sadly the 973 Cam wasn't going that day.

 

[Deas Plant]

When new????????????

Hi, Burnout.
Dunno what's goin' on with yours but our 943's are mostly nudging 20 years or more and they ALL stop promptly when you put the trans control back in Park. Just like stomping on the center pedal. Ditto our 2 x 953's. And my boss is NOT exactly renowned for his prompt and meticulous attention to maintenance details - if I may be so polite. LOL.