Caterpillar 12 grader engine is dead - please help?

[Entropy1]

Just for chit chat. I checked the price & availability for a CAT D318 turbocharger rebuild kit (technically a Schwitzer turbo manufactured for CAT). Parts are discontinued. If that turbo were to go bad, I'd have to install & adapt an aftermarket turbo.

It seems that a great deal of D318 parts are discontinued.

 

[Welder Dave]

And that surprises you?

 

[OzDozer]

The D318 engine first appeared in 1947 and it was made obsolete in 1959 when the D333 replaced it.
The guys who designed the D318 are likely all dead, that's 77 years ago when it was released.

If no suitable D318 can be acquired at reasonable cost, the next best option is to try and acquire a D333 out of a later 12E grader, which will be an easier fit-up than any other brand of engine.

Plus, the D333 grader engine HP rating is still acceptable, the engine layout is similar to the D318, and the housing will likely bolt up without excessive drama.

 

[JAJ]

The D318 engine first appeared in 1947 and it was made obsolete in 1959 when the D333 replaced it.
The guys who designed the D318 are likely all dead, that's 77 years ago when it was released.

If no suitable D318 can be acquired at reasonable cost, the next best option is to try and acquire a D333 out of a later 12E grader, which will be an easier fit-up than any other brand of engine.

Plus, the D333 grader engine HP rating is still acceptable, the engine layout is similar to the D318, and the housing will likely bolt up without excessive drama.

I did suggest a D333 or early 3306 a bit of a way back. I didn’t know if they would fit or be an option but at least it would still be all cat if they did. Sounds like a D333 could be an option for the OP then? Should be a few of them floating around

OzDozer are the parts for the D318 really that hard to get aftermarket? I know they are getting old but I thought someone would still make them.
Makes me worry about my D2 dozer restoration that I haven’t got around to starting!!

 

[OzDozer]

JAJ - Yes, it does appear the D318 engine parts are becoming difficult to source - and expensive when you can find them.
I believe new pistons and liners are still available from the Chinese, but their quality is still suspect.
I understand no U.S. manufacturers are producing new D318 parts any more.

The D311 in the D2 has exactly the same problem - you own an antique Cat, and with that, comes the problems of a scarcity of new parts.
D2 undercarriage has been obsolete for years, you have to modify D3/931 undercarriage and rollers to fit. D311 new engine parts are virtually non-existent.

 

[JAJ]

JAJ - Yes, it does appear the D318 engine parts are becoming difficult to source - and expensive when you can find them.
I believe new pistons and liners are still available from the Chinese, but their quality is still suspect.
I understand no U.S. manufacturers are producing new D318 parts any more.

The D311 in the D2 has exactly the same problem - you own an antique Cat, and with that, comes the problems of a scarcity of new parts.
D2 undercarriage has been obsolete for years, you have to modify D3/931 undercarriage and rollers to fit. D311 new engine parts are virtually non-existent.

Yeah ok sounds like my project will be fun then when I get to it, but like you say that’s the fun of the keeping the old girls alive. I have two D2’s, one is an early one 3J prefix I think. The other is I think a 4U (probably have them incorrect but both narrow track) . I have had them for a few years, the older one is missing a few bits, the newer one runs well and has hydraulics but the steering clutches are both seized. Tried to a few things to free them up but no luck, was going to pull it apart but haven’t got around to it yet. Anyway don’t want to hijack OP’s thread, but when I get around to it I might start a thread and pick your brain about it if you don’t mind?

 

[Entropy1]

I take no offense if you ask questions on this thread - it's all relevant information (fixing the CAT diesel).

So I picked up this running D318 engine from a genset. Lots of white smoke when starting (I'm assuming it's the 150 HP fuel-rail flooding the engine during startup). However, when I shut the engine down, the turbo seems to spool down unusually quickly. Upon further investigation, the turbo bearings are going bad. It is safe to assume this genset was no longer making rated power (probably why he sold it). But at least it's a complete engine, and it runs. . . . .

 

[Entropy1]

The rapidly increasing prices for D318 engine parts is an indicator that the remaining old-stock inventory is being depleted (and also because the economy sucks). Engine bearings being sold individually in lieu of a set is a good example.

I'm sure every D318 part I need is sitting on a shelf somewhere, scattered about various states & garages, in boxes collecting dust - the problem is finding them. . . .

 

[4x4ford]

Could he borrow the injectors from the new engine to perhaps check condition of his current engine before buying injectors and parts for it

 

[Entropy1]

And that surprises you?

Yes, it surprises me.

Schwitzer is still manufacturing turbochargers. A turbocharger rebuild kit is basically two bushings, a thrust plate assembly, and oil seals. These parts are mass-produced at low-cost, and do not take up a lot of shelf space. One would think that a last-production run by Schwitzer for 4-350 series turbo parts-kit would be enough to cover the occasional parts-order extending into the distant future.

CAT used to sell a D318 gasket set, but it's been discontinued. But we're told that all the gaskets are still available individually through CAT. Question - if all the gaskets remain individually available, then why discontinue the kit?

I'm willing to cut gaskets from sheet material (actually don't mind doing so at all). The head gasket however is a manufactured piece - which currently costs 750 dollars.

 

[Entropy1]

Could he borrow the injectors from the new engine to perhaps check condition of his current engine before buying injectors and parts for it

My current grader engine is seized up tight (prior owner left the coffee-can off the exhaust, and it filled & sat with rainwater). Ingesting water down the exhaust & sitting is a sure-fire way to take a D318 out-of-service.

 

[Tugger2]

Ive seen a few succesful resurections of seized engines done with penetrating oil and patience. Id say you have nothing to loose by pulling the rest of the injectors and flooding the cylinders and the exhaust with the concoction of your choice and patiently trying roll work it back and forth until it will roll over. Not sure if you guys have the Seafoam Deep Creep penetrating oil down there ,but the stuff works miracles quickly. At least you have some injectors and a few parts that will help you . Id say a smoky running engine is better than a seized one .

 

[JaredV]

Not sure if you guys have the Seafoam Deep Creep penetrating oil down there

Yep we do!

 

[Welder Dave]

It's over 50 years old. To make the parts for the few collectors who need them requires retooling to make a very small production run which increases costs. The parts could sit around for who knows how long. Then customers complain the parts cost too much. It's kind of a no win situation for the manufacturer when they could just make more commonly needed parts.

 

[Entropy1]

The 671 Detroit in my HD-14 dozer was made in 1939. A master rebuild kit for that engine is still available today, for about 2 grand (85 year old engine).

The possibility also exists that CAT is discontinuing parts-support for old machinery, because they want people to buy new machinery. It would seem that these old machines were built a little too well. . . . .

 

[Welder Dave]

When we're 6-71's last made and many hundreds of thousands or millions of them were made? Are the rebuild kits OEM or aftermarket? It's all about supply and demand. Try to find parts for a 50 year old JD machine.

 

[Entropy1]

So you're saying I made a mistake buying a CAT 12 grader with a seized engine - because there's no parts support?

 

[crane operator]

Since this thread started in Feb. of 2023, and you haven't managed to even pull the head to see what you have, I'm not sure its anyone's fault but you're own that its no closer to running.

Yes, buying a grader that hasn't been built in over 50 years, and expecting parts to be on the shelf waiting for you to rebuild it, is somewhat naïve. Actually cat does have some of the parts, you're complaining that you have to individually order gaskets, and upset at the price of a head gasket.

There's a supposedly running 12 by me for $8,000. There's another guy with a 14 and a 120 and you can buy the pair for $15,000. There's a surprising amount of nice running graders for $20-$30,000 that are from the 80's and 90's, and much more likely to have parts available.

Buying a ancient grader with a seized motor, and then being surprised at part issues, really isn't anyone else's fault. Why do you think they parked it in the weeds to begin with?

Instead, here we are a year later, and no closer to having the grader running, than last year.

Pull the head, oil the cylinders, pull the motor, find a parts machine, buy a different machine and make this one a parts machine. Repower it. Cut it in 1/2 and weld a JD4020 on to the back end. Do something. Doing nothing means you're never moving material.

 

[Welder Dave]

So you're saying I made a mistake buying a CAT 12 grader with a seized engine - because there's no parts support?

Way back in this thread I think you already answered that question. If you expected to get it running for a couple thousand $$ then I'd say yes but I think you already knew that. If the grader had some kind of sentimental value then maybe... but it doesn't. I think you were hoping to be able to say you've got this great old Cat 12 grader all fixed up for very little investment.

 

[Entropy1]

Pull the head, oil the cylinders, pull the motor, find a parts machine, buy a different machine and make this one a parts machine. Repower it. Cut it in 1/2 and weld a JD4020 on to the back end. Do something. Doing nothing means you're never moving material.

Why not install the running D318 engine I picked up on Friday?

I purchased this engine for just over what a complete set of D318 gaskets costs.