Caterpillar 277C crank but no start, blue smoke at mid throttle

[samhaley]

Howdy ive got an 09 277c skid steer with the 3044 engine equipment serial JWF01539. It has starting issues and smokes at mid/high throttle. I purchased it in such condition and now i am trying to figure out what the heck could be wrong with it (not such a great plan i must admit). The engine is pretty well taken care of with 2500 hours so I am suspecting its a fuel injection system problem. I can get the engine to start using a little bit of ether but it just doesnt start without it no matter if its hot or cold. I sprayed a bit of soapy water around the injectors and I can see air bubbles on almost every injector so I suspect its either air getting into the fuel lines or that the timing is off on the fuel pump. In order to calibrate the timing do I adjust something on the pump that is on the fuel/water separator or the pump attached to the crankcase? Anyone know how? Also how could I test an individual injector to make sure that its the entire assembly or if I am able to get away with replacing the O ring because that might be the reason its drawing air.

 

[92U 3406]

IIRC the injectors just slip into the head and are sealed on the bottom with copper washers. I would suspect that of you're getting a lot of bubbles around the injector body, the copper seals are leaking. That will not put air into the fuel.

Does it eventually smooth out and clear up when it warms up?

 

[samhaley]

IIRC the injectors just slip into the head and are sealed on the bottom with copper washers. I would suspect that of you're getting a lot of bubbles around the injector body, the copper seals are leaking. That will not put air into the fuel.

Does it eventually smooth out and clear up when it warms up?

No it does not, I did not get a chance to pull the injectors today since CAT parts dealer is closed but will do so tomorrow. The smoke stays throughout, its burning really rich since i can feel the diesel in my eyes just being near it. I am afraid it wont be as simple as the washers and I do end up having a timing issue I have no technical resources on how to fix.

I am having identical issues to

I read in the comments that all he had to do was readjust the pump housing but I have already spun the pump on the fuel/water separator but nothing.

 

[samhaley]

To reply to my own comment here is his post fix video

where he talks about readjusting the pump attached to the engine but not quite sure what he did.

 

[92U 3406]

The pump housing he'd be refering to would be the injection pump on the engine, not the primer pump on the filter housing.

Those injectors can be a royal pain to get out sometimes. They love to seize in the head. I do very much doubt that its your issue but if you're getting a huge amount of bubbles around the injectors it wouldn't hurt to fix it.

Unfortunately I can't provide any troubleshooting info. I no longer have access to Cat's SISWeb.

 

[92U 3406]

I do know these engines have a fuel shutoff solenoid and some have what's called a "cold timing advance" feature.

I had a similar machine to yours show similar symptoms (hard starting, rough running, low power, lots of grey/white smoke). From what I remember, it was one of the solenoids on the injection pump that failed. Can't remember if it was the shutoff or the cold timing advance.

 

[Vetech63]

Have you checked the air intake system?

 

[samhaley]

Have you checked the air intake system?

Admittedly I have not. Any specific parts to check? Beside cranking and not starting and he smoking at mid/high throttle, the engine seems to run fine at low throttle. No smoke or obvious misfire/shaking

 

[samhaley]

I do know these engines have a fuel shutoff solenoid and some have what's called a "cold timing advance" feature.

I had a similar machine to yours show similar symptoms (hard starting, rough running, low power, lots of grey/white smoke). From what I remember, it was one of the solenoids on the injection pump that failed. Can't remember if it was the shutoff or the cold timing advance.

I just had a chance to re adjust the injection pump that is on the engine didnt expect much from just shifting a bit so I cant be disappointed that it did not resolve anything. How would i test the solenoids? should I unplug them while I have the engine running? I checked on the cat parts website and the injector pump has two that are accessible about 300 a pop so I dont want it to be hit and miss

 

[Vetech63]

Admittedly I have not. Any specific parts to check? Beside cranking and not starting and he smoking at mid/high throttle, the engine seems to run fine at low throttle. No smoke or obvious misfire/shaking

Im not sure how your engine is set up (turbocharged?, After or inter cooled? ) but you should check all the air intake and fuel flow systems first in my opinion. Check the air cleaner hoses for restrictions while its running to make sure a hose isnt collapsing, check the turbo if equipped with one for damage or leakage. Check all clamps if you have an cooler for the intake air. Fuel filters? Supply pump pressure? Fuel restrictions on the return side?

 

[samhaley]

Im not sure how your engine is set up (turbocharged?, After or inter cooled? ) but you should check all the air intake and fuel flow systems first in my opinion. Check the air cleaner hoses for restrictions while its running to make sure a hose isnt collapsing, check the turbo if equipped with one for damage or leakage. Check all clamps if you have an cooler for the intake air. Fuel filters? Supply pump pressure? Fuel restrictions on the return side?

I do know these engines have a fuel shutoff solenoid and some have what's called a "cold timing advance" feature.

I had a similar machine to yours show similar symptoms (hard starting, rough running, low power, lots of grey/white smoke). From what I remember, it was one of the solenoids on the injection pump that failed. Can't remember if it was the shutoff or the cold timing advance.

Ok I just spoke with the previous owner of the machine (since i purchased it at auction) and he said the cranking problems started when it was parked on a steep hill and then when they tried to start it back up again the lines didnt have any fuel. He replaced the injector pump, glow plugs and the fuel filter and that didnt work.

 

[heymccall]

I always start with the fuel filter head on those machines. It is not uncommon to have an internal passage on the inlet side plugged.
If you haven't fully disassembled it, I'd start there.

Higher rpm miss, trouble starting, hot or cold, etc...and you've had all the expensive parts changed.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the oring on top of the water bowl was missing, too.