I know I"ve seen this posted before but can't find it now when I need it, I'm not sure what its called, varnish, stale fuel, gunk in tanks, or exactly the phrase to use, but I bought a dozer that has sat for some time with little use over the last few years and there is a buildup on the inside of the tanks and on the dipstick tube that I'd call varnish, anyone got ideas how to clean them out? Is there some miracle product that you can dump into the tank and roll the tank to remove the gunk and then what do you use to rinse the tanks out with again? Thanks in advance
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cleaning fuel tanks
- Thread starter Randy88
- Start date
Legdoc
Senior Member
Randy, been there, done that twice on a little used old A-C grader that was contaminated with algae/bacteria. Removing the tank was not an option. I drained the diesel and removed the inspection plates. I then high pressure washed with hot water for hours with a flexible wand. I used rig wash to help break the crud up.You would not believe all the crap that came out of there. I then ventilated the tank overnight with a hair drier on high. The next morning I buttoned it up flushed the lines, replaced the filters and filled it up. This time I put a biocide in the fuel. I should have used biocide 8 years ago I probably would have not had to repeat the process last summer. I fill all equipment tanks daily to reduce moisture contamination. I hope this helps.
Legdoc
Legdoc
Tinkerer
Senior Member
I would try muriatic acid. I don't mean to just dump it in the tank, but get some of the crud in a plastic bucket and try the acid on it. As always use eye and skin protection. If it works then dump the acid in the tank.
Therre is a tar like substance on the dipstick tube, when I shine a ight down into the tank there is gunk on the inside of the tank that I can see, the screen in the top of the tank is plugged solid with the stuff, there are so many baffles in the tank, if I"d pressure wash inside I'd get a fraction of the stuff out and not in the area it needs to be removed from. I can remove the tank from the machine, no problems there but I"m not sure if the muratic acid is even an option inside a steel tank, I've use that many times in copper pipes. I will definately check it out with my plumbers locally to see what they think, as for pressure washing, I'm not thinking that is a viable options with the baffles in it but we may end up trying it anyhow.
Does anyone know how there came to be a tar like substance in the tank in the first place, just sitting for so long the fuel became tar? The dozer runs, we've cleaned the old fuel out and changed filters, by shining a light inside the tank, towards the bottom of the tank is cleaner than at the top, which makes no sense to me at all, I'd think just the opposite would be the case, the tube the dipstick runs is really bad, we rigged up a wand small enough to run down that and used diesel fuel to wash that out somewhat.
Niext question I have, will diesel fuel sloshing inside the tank wash this stuff off and then in turn plug the filters, but at least we'd clean the tanks that way, my fuel supplier doesn't know, but was thiinking with enough filter changes this might be the case, he was beyond baffled as to how this occured, he claims if its from fuel left in for years, the bottom would settle out with sludge, not the top, its not rust so its not from moisture, his only explaination was whoever ran the machine, just put a little fuel it at a time and didn't move it much to get the sloshing effect to clean the tank and the residue so to speak, broke down over time to create the tar like gunk at the top and in the areas that didn't get much fuel, sounded plausable to me I guess, he was just guessing himself. But now how to get it out without causing a lot of damage to anything is the question. Thanks for the replies, any idea however stange it maybe, is welcomed.
Does anyone know how there came to be a tar like substance in the tank in the first place, just sitting for so long the fuel became tar? The dozer runs, we've cleaned the old fuel out and changed filters, by shining a light inside the tank, towards the bottom of the tank is cleaner than at the top, which makes no sense to me at all, I'd think just the opposite would be the case, the tube the dipstick runs is really bad, we rigged up a wand small enough to run down that and used diesel fuel to wash that out somewhat.
Niext question I have, will diesel fuel sloshing inside the tank wash this stuff off and then in turn plug the filters, but at least we'd clean the tanks that way, my fuel supplier doesn't know, but was thiinking with enough filter changes this might be the case, he was beyond baffled as to how this occured, he claims if its from fuel left in for years, the bottom would settle out with sludge, not the top, its not rust so its not from moisture, his only explaination was whoever ran the machine, just put a little fuel it at a time and didn't move it much to get the sloshing effect to clean the tank and the residue so to speak, broke down over time to create the tar like gunk at the top and in the areas that didn't get much fuel, sounded plausable to me I guess, he was just guessing himself. But now how to get it out without causing a lot of damage to anything is the question. Thanks for the replies, any idea however stange it maybe, is welcomed.
Legdoc
Senior Member
Randy, the tar like substance is probably the algae/bacteria just like I had. Consider a degreaser followed by high volume steam. Or fill it with degreaser/water and boil it then flush, flush, flush. There is probably so much contaminant it will plug the filters within minutes. I had no choice but to go to the extreme to get as much "tar" out as possible. It was a real PITA but now problem solved.
crane operator
Senior Member
We had a bad fuel tank (set for 5+ years) and we tried power washing the tank and it didn't do a great job. As soon as we started moving the crane, the sloshing of diesel in the tank, and its cleaning action would clog the filters right away. It took several times of cleaning and filters before it worked through the system. If the tank is easy to remove, I'd be tempted to take it off and cut one end open. Then you could really get at it with the power washer and then weld that end back shut when you're done.
It is so difficult to clean, fill the tank with fuel, it clogs the filters, then you're broke down, and never in a good spot. Then you have to try to drain all the fuel again, and do you dump it, or filter it and shove it back through the machine. I hate dumping expensive fuel, but filters and injectors aren't cheap either. It seems like a never ending battle.
There is a kbs fuel sealer, its for sealing rusty tanks, they have a cleaner that your supposed to use before sealing. I think the cleaner would take out your gunk, but it gets expensive to coat a tank of that size. I've helped a guy who restores antique cars, and he uses it to seal up the old rusty tanks because he can't get new tanks. It does the trick on those.
It is so difficult to clean, fill the tank with fuel, it clogs the filters, then you're broke down, and never in a good spot. Then you have to try to drain all the fuel again, and do you dump it, or filter it and shove it back through the machine. I hate dumping expensive fuel, but filters and injectors aren't cheap either. It seems like a never ending battle.
There is a kbs fuel sealer, its for sealing rusty tanks, they have a cleaner that your supposed to use before sealing. I think the cleaner would take out your gunk, but it gets expensive to coat a tank of that size. I've helped a guy who restores antique cars, and he uses it to seal up the old rusty tanks because he can't get new tanks. It does the trick on those.
leisureexpress
Well-Known Member
Ok, you said you wanted ideas.... :
This comes from a page for getting rust out of smaller gas tanks like those mounted on motorcycles, snowmobiles or lawn mowers - put a cup or quart or 2 (depending on the size) of diesel in and a handful (1 or 2 dozen) of hex nuts and shake the **** out of it. The nuts will act to agitate and loosen the rust/varnish/crud and it will suspend in the diesel. Pour it out and repeat until clean.
Your tank is bigger and too big for a human to shake that would result in any of the action mentioned above (I am pretty sure), since you said you could remove it, do so. You need to induce some long lasting/heavy duty vibration to the tank and you could use either a dump truck bed vibrator or the mechanism off a small plate compactor. Weld a plate to the tank so the vibrator can just be bolted on (the plate would stay on the tank permanant)
r
Here is the type of bed vibrator I'm talking about: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Truck-Star-...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item2572d852d2
Now just suspend the tank in the air with a chain from a loader/hoist/whatever so as to not dampen the vibrations, throw in some nuts and a couple gallons of diesel and vibrate away. Rotate the tank so the side where the sludge is accessed by the nuts. You could also use ceramic media but if you use steel nuts they could be retrieved with a telescoping magnet.
You would just be making a vibratory tumbler on steroids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-MlLmk9VZs
Not real cheap, fast or easy, but I am sure it would be effective.
You said you welcomed strange ideas!! So there!
leisureexpress, I'll have to admit, that one is a new one on me, I'd have never came up with that one. The tank holds something like 1215 gallons and from what I can see in it, there must be at least three baffles inside, maybe more. So far we've opted for the lazy way to do it, pour some diesel in the tank and go run the machine, let the fuel sloshing clean the tank out, can't say its the most sucessfull, but for now, we're doing two things, stalling time to remove the tank and do the job and getting some work done with the machine in the process. We haven't had a lot of time to devote to the project, only about ten hours of run time so far and only one filter. Winter is coming sooner than I need it to come, maybe I'll have some more time to work on it then, keep the ideas coming and again, don't hesitate to offer the strange one's, I"m always open to ideas, who knows maybe that silver bullet will come along, the one that has virtually no work, no waste and super results.
While tossing around different ideas, someone offered this one as an option, I didn't know so I'll run it by you guys, it goes as follows, remove the tank, lay it on the ground, pour in five gallons of parts cleaner, roll the tank some every few hours and dump out the old and put in new a few times till the inside is clean, any ideas will it work? I"ve been thinking about it the last few days, can't seem to come up with a reason why it might not work, its a steel tank same as the can it comes in and it'll clean the parts slicker than anything why not a tank inside, haven't had the guts to try that one either yet, nor the time. Toss it around some and give some ideas why I shouldn't try it.
While tossing around different ideas, someone offered this one as an option, I didn't know so I'll run it by you guys, it goes as follows, remove the tank, lay it on the ground, pour in five gallons of parts cleaner, roll the tank some every few hours and dump out the old and put in new a few times till the inside is clean, any ideas will it work? I"ve been thinking about it the last few days, can't seem to come up with a reason why it might not work, its a steel tank same as the can it comes in and it'll clean the parts slicker than anything why not a tank inside, haven't had the guts to try that one either yet, nor the time. Toss it around some and give some ideas why I shouldn't try it.
Yea thats what I was told anyhow, to use the carb cleaner you soak parts in overnight, a friend pointed this out to me, haven't figured out why not to give it a try, just haven't had time to do it yet, it might not be the cheapest idea but should be the fastest and easiest though.
Tinkerer
Senior Member
Methylene chloride is readily available at lot of stores and is a powerful paint stripper. I have used it a few times, always outdoors. BUT, it creates deadly fumes when it evaporates. There are 13 documented deaths connected to its use. Here is a link to a must read article if you are considering using it. http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2...s-3-premium-stripper-available-at-home-depot/
TheOldMan
Senior Member
I'm not sure it will work on diesel, but I clean the tar like sludge from old gasoline using MEK. The last one I did was on an old SA200 Lincoln welder. I made a plywood panel that bolted onto my compact tractor wheel, dumped in a gallon of MEK and a handful of nuts and bolts and used the tractor for a few days, drained it out, flushed with water and dishwashing detergent and did it the second time. Second time it was spotless. Recoated the inside of the tank, and I'm still usng it today.
Here's one to get you by to finish the job. Screw the the discharge line out of the bottom of the fuel tank, solder a piece of copper tubing in so it creates a standpipe about two inches tall, screw it back in. You won't be able to get all of the fuel but just don't let it get that low. All of the crap will stay on the bottom of the tank till you can remove it.
An update on the ordeal, we've been changing filters and even learned a few things along the way, my filter canister was totally plugged with the tar like substance about three inches thick on the bottom, we scraped a bunch of it out and went to the experts, several mechanics, a parts supply guy and several fuel guys, they all came to the same conclusion, its got nothing to do with anything fuel related. I said before it looks like tar, you can scrape it, roll it into a ball and when at room temperature its not really sticky, warm it up and it flows or oozes and drips. only one guy had any explaination at al to what it was and I can't say I can argue with his idea, he thinks its liquid road tar, his only explaination was maybe a former employee was upset and dumped some in it at one time, maybe, nobody else could come up with anything else to explain it.
Now for the educational part, steam cleaning does nothing, and I mean nothing to even attempt to get it out of the filter housing, gas is about the same thing, anything we tried the parts guy had or even heard of is worthless to remove it. The only thing so far is carburator cleaner will somewhat disolve it over time, we did get the inside of the housing clean and now we are attempting to get the float tank, smaller tank beside the filter housing clean, we used a screw driver to peel about four inches of the goo out of the bottom of that tank and nobody has any idea other than carb cleaner to use on the big tank, all the lines and fittings are covered in the stuff and when the engine is warm, it melts and puts it into a suspension and it flows like a liquid. I know we tried to heat the filter housing with a torch to see if it melts, which is does and you can pour it out...................somewhat, but as soon as it cools, it turns to playdough again, we rolled it into balls the size of golf balls and you can roll it anywhere, its not really sticky when cold unless it cools to the surface, then it takes a putty knife to get it off.
So armed with that knowledge anybody have any experience with road tar or any substance simular to that? I'd guess maybe about 10 gallons were dumped into the tank at one time, I'm guessing a long time ago and the prior owner just kept changing filters on a regular basis.
Fitlers do catch the stuff, but when you cut them open the paper is literally a wad of goo, if you do it when the engine is warm, the stuff drips out like warm taffy, once its cold, you can't do anything with it.
Now for the educational part, steam cleaning does nothing, and I mean nothing to even attempt to get it out of the filter housing, gas is about the same thing, anything we tried the parts guy had or even heard of is worthless to remove it. The only thing so far is carburator cleaner will somewhat disolve it over time, we did get the inside of the housing clean and now we are attempting to get the float tank, smaller tank beside the filter housing clean, we used a screw driver to peel about four inches of the goo out of the bottom of that tank and nobody has any idea other than carb cleaner to use on the big tank, all the lines and fittings are covered in the stuff and when the engine is warm, it melts and puts it into a suspension and it flows like a liquid. I know we tried to heat the filter housing with a torch to see if it melts, which is does and you can pour it out...................somewhat, but as soon as it cools, it turns to playdough again, we rolled it into balls the size of golf balls and you can roll it anywhere, its not really sticky when cold unless it cools to the surface, then it takes a putty knife to get it off.
So armed with that knowledge anybody have any experience with road tar or any substance simular to that? I'd guess maybe about 10 gallons were dumped into the tank at one time, I'm guessing a long time ago and the prior owner just kept changing filters on a regular basis.
Fitlers do catch the stuff, but when you cut them open the paper is literally a wad of goo, if you do it when the engine is warm, the stuff drips out like warm taffy, once its cold, you can't do anything with it.
OldandWorn
Senior Member
Dude...what size dozer is this?
mistyped?This sounds like a long term project. I would consider buying or even making some sort of filter contraption that you could use common and inexpensive materials for the filter that is easy to change out.
Oops a tying mistake, its a 125 gallon tank I think, according to the book, it has a smaller float tank and then the older cartrige type filters on it. After yesterday I give up, the entire fuel system is going to be dismantled and if we can't get the junk out of the tank, I'm looking for a different replacement tank. I've only got a couple days worth of work for the dozer on this job and we're done for a few weeks with the machine, after what we went through yesterday, its now sitting in the middle of the jobsite and dead where it sits, we can't even get it to run long enough to get it to the road to load it up....... so its getting dismantled as is where is.
We're putting new hoses on everything, the pumps coming off to be sent in to be checked over, both tanks are coming off along with the filter housings.
Does anyone know how these systems work with the float tank in them, can a fllter system be installed between the big tank and the float tank to catch the stuff, yesterday we kept plugging the float mechanism and starving the filters for fuel. After cleaning the filter cansisters out we thought we could run the machine to finish the job for the few days and get it back home to work on, it ran almost a half hour total all day, after it warmed up it got some more stuff in both the float tank and the filter housings again and shut me down, after that the float valve was gummed up three times and is now again not working, yet you look in the main tank and you can see the bottom of the tank and thats fairly clean, just the top and sides are bad with the crud. We dumped the float mechanism in a gallon can of carb cleaner and after an hour it was pretty clean, just some brushing and it worked great, we even used carb cleaner on the float tank and that looked good, I"m sure its back to pretty bad again now. We drained some fuel out of the main tank and it flows fine, no debris or crud comes out at all apparently till the engine and fuel get warmed up, the bottom of the main tank is clean, I can see the outlet and the sump in the tank is perfectly cleaned out and shiny, how it can gum up everything in a matter of minutes is beyond me, we even cleaned the hoses out to make sure it wasn't coming from there but that didn't help either, we blew everything dry before putting it back together.
When I bought the dozer and did the prebuy, I took all the oil samples and checked everything over and miraculously the fuel tank was full to the top of the cap, all the oil samples came back great and it wasn't a high priced dozer at all, but I commented to my wife at the time, I'd never seen anyone fill the fuel tank that full, with the clip in place I couldn't pull the screen out to even look at that, guess I now know why, my sons are taking this all in stride and even though I didn't have a sense of humor yesterday they still did, my oldest boy offered me half of what I'd paid for the dozer, and the youngest said he'd wait me out till late afternoon and get it for "free to a good home".
We're putting new hoses on everything, the pumps coming off to be sent in to be checked over, both tanks are coming off along with the filter housings.
Does anyone know how these systems work with the float tank in them, can a fllter system be installed between the big tank and the float tank to catch the stuff, yesterday we kept plugging the float mechanism and starving the filters for fuel. After cleaning the filter cansisters out we thought we could run the machine to finish the job for the few days and get it back home to work on, it ran almost a half hour total all day, after it warmed up it got some more stuff in both the float tank and the filter housings again and shut me down, after that the float valve was gummed up three times and is now again not working, yet you look in the main tank and you can see the bottom of the tank and thats fairly clean, just the top and sides are bad with the crud. We dumped the float mechanism in a gallon can of carb cleaner and after an hour it was pretty clean, just some brushing and it worked great, we even used carb cleaner on the float tank and that looked good, I"m sure its back to pretty bad again now. We drained some fuel out of the main tank and it flows fine, no debris or crud comes out at all apparently till the engine and fuel get warmed up, the bottom of the main tank is clean, I can see the outlet and the sump in the tank is perfectly cleaned out and shiny, how it can gum up everything in a matter of minutes is beyond me, we even cleaned the hoses out to make sure it wasn't coming from there but that didn't help either, we blew everything dry before putting it back together.
When I bought the dozer and did the prebuy, I took all the oil samples and checked everything over and miraculously the fuel tank was full to the top of the cap, all the oil samples came back great and it wasn't a high priced dozer at all, but I commented to my wife at the time, I'd never seen anyone fill the fuel tank that full, with the clip in place I couldn't pull the screen out to even look at that, guess I now know why, my sons are taking this all in stride and even though I didn't have a sense of humor yesterday they still did, my oldest boy offered me half of what I'd paid for the dozer, and the youngest said he'd wait me out till late afternoon and get it for "free to a good home".
OldandWorn
Senior Member
Randy, I’m curious as to the make and model of your dozer, for no particular reason really. Pics would be nice too. You know how we all love pics.
I’m just thinking out loud and it may not be worth the time but here is a thought. Get yourself a pump, a way to heat the fuel up, and build a large filter. I don’t know how to safely heat the fuel but maybe like a coiled pipe heater similar to a kerosene fired steam cleaner. Not too hot of course but enough to make the tar flow. Maybe you could use cheap pleated furnace filters in a big tub or a 5 gallon bucket with some kind of filter material in a concave shape. If you can see and hit the sides of the tank, a handheld pressure nozzle on the output of the pump will speed things up nicely.
Maybe there are companies out there with a similar setup for cleaning out tanks?
I’m just thinking out loud and it may not be worth the time but here is a thought. Get yourself a pump, a way to heat the fuel up, and build a large filter. I don’t know how to safely heat the fuel but maybe like a coiled pipe heater similar to a kerosene fired steam cleaner. Not too hot of course but enough to make the tar flow. Maybe you could use cheap pleated furnace filters in a big tub or a 5 gallon bucket with some kind of filter material in a concave shape. If you can see and hit the sides of the tank, a handheld pressure nozzle on the output of the pump will speed things up nicely.
Maybe there are companies out there with a similar setup for cleaning out tanks?
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Its a late 70's model komatsu d85 with a cummins engine in it. I'd post pictures but I'm not up enough on technology to make that work, not that its the sites fault, I"m technology impared as my kids would say. We tried the steam cleaner method on the filter housing, it didn't work, we're thinking the entire surface the tar is on needs to be hot, and then it runs, not really washes away, from what we tried anyhow.
The carb cleaner worked great on the smaller float tank, but we also used a brush to scrub it some, haven't figured out how to do that with the large fuel tank yet, we're still giving that some thought. We did buy a few more gallons of the carb cleaner and plan to take the tank off and just dump some in and let it sit overnight to see what that does.
The stuff is hard to explain, if its warm, its sticky, if its hot it drips and once its on your fingers, nothing safe to handle takes it off, if its cold you can roll it into a ball, once its warm it goes soft and melts into a puddle again.
As for anyone who cleans tanks, I've asked and nobody locally knew of anyone, most had no idea what I had in the tank in the first place, let alone how to get it out.
The carb cleaner worked great on the smaller float tank, but we also used a brush to scrub it some, haven't figured out how to do that with the large fuel tank yet, we're still giving that some thought. We did buy a few more gallons of the carb cleaner and plan to take the tank off and just dump some in and let it sit overnight to see what that does.
The stuff is hard to explain, if its warm, its sticky, if its hot it drips and once its on your fingers, nothing safe to handle takes it off, if its cold you can roll it into a ball, once its warm it goes soft and melts into a puddle again.
As for anyone who cleans tanks, I've asked and nobody locally knew of anyone, most had no idea what I had in the tank in the first place, let alone how to get it out.
leisureexpress
Well-Known Member
Here are the pictures from Randy88:
tylermckee
Senior Member
If it becoms flow able when hot could you stick the tank on a couple outdoor propane turkey fryers and let it run out the drain? After draining/washing the fuel out of course.