Completely new at this :/

[Welder Dave]

On a job site if something bad happened, I don't think "I didn't read the manual" would help your defence. More the opposite. Many accidents could have been avoided if someone had just read the manual. If it was a crane you'd sure want to read the manual and it's no different with a skid steer. Some people might pick it up quick, some won't.

 

[Acoals]

Exactly what sort of "bad thing" or accident on a jobsite is going to be prevented by reading a operators manual?

I have never given "not reading the manual" as a defence when something has gone wrong. The guys I have worked for would have laughed pretty hard at that one.

The last bad thing that happened to me on a jobsite in a skid loader was blowing the front door out. I was tired, it was an unfamiliar area with different tree species, and I generally just was careless and screwed up. What was the manual going to do about that?

Most of the bad stuff that has been done to my machines by employees was caused by carelessness or general stupidity.

 

[MG84]

You know, honestly; I don't think I have ever actually read an operators manual for any machine I have ever run. I really don't know of anybody else who ever has either. Aside from explaining the controls, all the manual really winds up being is a liability cover for the manufacturer. Pages and pages of the manufacturer informing me that the machine can kill me.

I actually do read the manual of almost every machine I own, new or used. I'll buy a manual for a used machine if it doesn't come with it. Not so much for the safety aspect, but there are a lot of little features, settings, etc that I would have never found or used if I hadn't read the manual. Also for service related things, like that hidden grease fitting that no one would know about. Do I need to read the manual to safely and effectively run a piece of equipment, no. But for the small amount of time it takes I often learn things that help me be more productive or take better care of the machine.

 

[Welder Dave]

Reading the manual let's you get familiar with the controls and features of a machine. It will also have warnings about what not to do. Nothing bad comes from reading the manual but could from not reading it. A little while ago there was a thread about mini-ex's. and a certain model could put the bucket in contact with the cab if the boom is in a certain position. Reading the manual could warn you about things like that so you don't find out the hard way.

 

[BC Placer gold]

I actually do read the manual of almost every machine I own, new or used. I'll buy a manual for a used machine if it doesn't come with it. Not so much for the safety aspect, but there are a lot of little features, settings, etc that I would have never found or used if I hadn't read the manual. Also for service related things, like that hidden grease fitting that no one would know about. Do I need to read the manual to safely and effectively run a piece of equipment, no. But for the small amount of time it takes I often learn things that help me be more productive or take better care of the machine.

I am the same way, call me crazy; but I actually enjoy the read.

 

[NH575E]

I've read the manual for my machine. Maybe not all the way through but to understand location and function of everything as well as capacities and fluid types.

 

[aighead]

I remember when I rented the backhoe before I bought mine. My street, as mentioned elsewhere, isn't conducive to long truck/trailers so the rental guy stopped at a church parking lot down the road. I had no idea how to operate the machine. I think he gave me a very quick "Here's how you go forward and backward" and sent me off. As soon as I was parked in my driveway I sat and read through the operators manual for probably an hour or two. I made it through the rental with no major issues, but it was nice, as a know-nothing, to have a bit of understanding of where stuff was and some of the hazards.

That being said, I don't think the manual mentioned any of the things that I've been in trouble with in my backhoe. Trees above you, getting stuck in mud, etc.

 

[Willie B]

Safety is similar with all makes & models. A refresher is never a bad thing.
Between machines there will be differences. One machine recommended leaving the bucket bottom perpendicular to the dipper, let the teeth do the penetrating, take much of the wear. My current hoe wants me to use the bucket curl to loosen the soil. This manual points out this hydraulic circuit has the most power. All backhoe manuals warn against pushing the dirt back into the hole with the swing.

Come to think, I never have figured out the differential lock.

 

[Project-man]

Thanks again for the information.... the swale I want to construct will mostly be in an open area of our yard and I will take down the two mature trees on the side of the small hill before I start removing that material from that hill for the swale. Figuring out the logistics and strategy for this project is challenging for me. I can just pay someone to do it for me but since I would someday like to have a machine of my own. I really would like to familiarize myself with slid steers or backhoes and see how productive they can be for me a week at a time.

If most of your think a skid steer (with an aggressive bucket) can break up the old material on the hill that initially was dug out to create the "garage" basement then I would rent one for a week and see how much damage I can do with it. I'm thinking a couple of days on the skid steer will give me a good indication whether or not I would need additional material for an effective swale and allow enough time to grade the material properly and be done with it.

I'm thinking in the fall when I have to cut down some large trees in a wooded area of our property, I can rent a backhoe to dig out the stumps and rough grade the area I want to clear for a better view. Using both of these machines would help me understand the potential either machine has to offer and if either machine would be worth the time, investment and space necessary to keep them operational.

 

[skyking1]

Pick dry weather to work the job.

 

[Welder Dave]

Any machine will take a couple of days or more to get somewhat familiar with. If there were mature tree's where you want to make the swale could be a problem. If there's a lot of roots near the surface and you start digging it up could turn it into a much bigger project. I've told potential customers I couldn't do it when they wanted landscaping done where large tree's were still standing or been removed. If you can add material and still get the proper slope and drainage makes it much more feasible.

 

[aighead]

Mature trees where you are getting material for the swale? As Dave mentions above that may be troublesome, I've never really messed with a skid steer but if you are trying to pick up dirt full of roots it could be tricky.

Also, how productive can you be? Extremely! Every time I used my hoe I'm amazed at how much work can be done quickly.

 

[Welder Dave]

Roots can be extremely difficult to deal with if they're near the surface. You can't just shear them off nor can you dig them out easily (with a skid steer when landscaping). You can hook a root and when you try to lift it up you instantly have a 10' long trench/rut where the root came out of the ground. One root can also lift other roots out of the ground so now you have 5 or 6 of these trenches or ruts. It literally is opening a can of worms. Your 1 hour landscaping job can become an all day affair because you have to dig out or cut all the roots and then bring in more material to make up for volume lost by the roots. Spruce tree's are especially bad but any mature tree's can have a bunch of roots near the surface. That's why it's easy to turn jobs down. Better to walk away than open a can of worms the customer won't want to pay to close.

 

[NH575E]

If you rent something buy the extra insurance that absolves you of any damages to the equipment.

 

[Willie B]

Thanks again for the information.... the swale I want to construct will mostly be in an open area of our yard and I will take down the two mature trees on the side of the small hill before I start removing that material from that hill for the swale. Figuring out the logistics and strategy for this project is challenging for me. I can just pay someone to do it for me but since I would someday like to have a machine of my own. I really would like to familiarize myself with slid steers or backhoes and see how productive they can be for me a week at a time.

If most of your think a skid steer (with an aggressive bucket) can break up the old material on the hill that initially was dug out to create the "garage" basement then I would rent one for a week and see how much damage I can do with it. I'm thinking a couple of days on the skid steer will give me a good indication whether or not I would need additional material for an effective swale and allow enough time to grade the material properly and be done with it.

I'm thinking in the fall when I have to cut down some large trees in a wooded area of our property, I can rent a backhoe to dig out the stumps and rough grade the area I want to clear for a better view. Using both of these machines would help me understand the potential either machine has to offer and if either machine would be worth the time, investment and space necessary to keep them operational.

I seldom dig out a stump. The process depends on the tree. I do NOT push dead trees! A healthy tree with no dead branches I push over. A healthy tree trunk is a big lever. In the mid 1980s I bought a Power Wagon with two winches. I would climb high as I could get with a ladder, hitch a heavy chain & a winch cable. I've taken 24" hardwoods easily this way.
Lately I push them over. Set the backhoe, sink the bucket teeth deep as I can into the bark 15' above the ground & push. It the tree is too big to simply push, I dig some roots out on the near side. Up to 36" diameter this method takes out stump & all.

 

[Project-man]

Thanks again for the responses......the 2 mature (@ 20" diam) trees do pose a problem because they would need to be taken down and stumps dugout to effectively remove material from this hill...... basically I need to move @ 8-10 cubic yds. of material next to the hill and as far as @ 50' to create this swale. I can remove material from the top of the hill/berm and go down to above the trees but as stated before, I would need to be very careful not to back into these trees and damage the rental......I'm going to attempt to send some pics of the project because a picture is worth a 1000 words. I'm terrible at technology so if I'm unsuccessful, please don't kick me off of the forum......

 

[MG84]

If it were me, I think I'd reshape the whole backyard to get the proper slope away from the house. A small swale is just a band aid fix IMO, and could be easily overwhelmed in a heavy rain. You've got plenty of area to work with, you need the entire grade sloping away from the house, pool, etc for at least 10-20', then you can reshape the backyard to suit. Still an easy job with a large tracked skid steer, but you're going to be moving a lot more than 8-10cy.

 

[Project-man]

That's another option I was thinking about and I'm assuming it would require a mid sized bulldozer to rework the backyard and create the best drainage for the whole backyard. That would mean I would completely obliterate the fine "field grass" lawn I've manicured over the last year but I guess a summer w/o a decent lawn is better than a flooded basement any day..... I'll take a few more pics to see if I can better present the scope of work..... you guys are the best!!

 

[skyking1]

Looking at those pictures, I'd be thinking just a Catch Basin (CB) and pipe installation. The opposite of tearing up the whole thing.

 

[Acoals]

In the hands of a good operator a dozer is far better at grading. The roots won't bother it either. You won't need a mid size dozer, the smallest dozer available will be just fine, 65hp/17,000lb or so.

A dozer will cost about three times as much as a skid loader, and will be harder to find at rental. Also, if you don't have experience it may not make much of a difference. A good operator in a tracked skid loader (CTL) will do a fine job as well.

I would just get a big CTL, myself.