Correct Loading Techniques

[Frameroux]

Guys, can you please share your thoughts on the following. Some people can be vary technical about exactly how to operate the Excavator. Some say it depends on the operator and the circumstances. Please let me know what you think.

1) The correct angle of the dipper and bucket. Does it depend on the type of soil because two different training companies recommend two different techniques. what do you say?


2) What is the correct way to load a dump truck. Some say you always load through the tailgate (45 deg if possible to save time). Some recommends loading while you swing saving time but over the sidewalls of the truck.


Loading over the sidewalls and offloading while you swing seems more productive but tricky...especially for new operators.

 

[movindirt]

The bottom left picture looks like it would be the most productive, then the truck doesn't have to waste time backing up every time. As for the correct angle of the dipper and bucket, I don't really take a lot of time to pay attention to how it is when I am digging it seems like its however is needed for the situation?

 

[JimBruce42]

I was always told, and have in experience found, that from 30 degrees out to 90 degrees is where you have the most power. That being said in the real world, however it's whatever you gotta do to fill the bucket . Loading will always depend on the situation, location, and material, but whenever possible we try to have it set up so the trucks can pull up next to the hoe (similar to the far right one, but parallel with the bench instead of at a 45). I try very hard not to have the trucks pull up face the other direction cause then you're swinging "over the cab", does it happen sometimes yes, but I try to avoid it.

 

[Frameroux]

I suppose then the correct answer for the first question is: The method that fills up the bucket the quickest. I think it is difficult to make it set in stone when experience will guide you. I was just wondering what/how you will teach a new rookie operator.

On the second question I fthought that the bottom picture will be the quickest because your swing is short and you have only two movements (Swing and Bucket Tilt). Like Movindirt said the truck also does not have to back up. Our operators does not work like this so I suppose it`s maybe more difficult as the swing control can more difficult to manage.

Thank you for you comments! I learn a lot and always wonder if theory and practice can be reconciled, seems not....

 

[kevin37b]

Absolutely , without a doubt , is having the dummys run in beside you , driver looking at you . Set it up and go . There is nothing worse than waiting on those dum****s to back in . Even after you tell them to back in till I honk the ****ing horn , they will stop somewhere in MONTANA and this is Illinois . What you want is the bucket full at the same radius to load the hauler . I watch this **** everyday and it just amazes me that these ****ing foremans have a job .

 

[JimBruce42]

You'll find there is a host of different reasons to change up how you dig. Getting a fluid rhythm regardless of the rest of the variables is what really makes production. When you swing over and dump into the truck, you should already be sticking out and swinging back into the cut ASAP... As Kevin is hinting at, bad drivers can ruin that rhythm by pulling up too far, backing into the wrong spot, or just stopping wherever they want. At the end of the day, as long as I can reach the truck without too much difficulty, I'm happy... mostly.

 

[Frameroux]

Guys, I got another answer concerning the second question. Someone whom I spoke with about this said it depends on your material as well. He said when he loads sand or gravel he will use the bottom method but when he loads rocks and stone he will use either of the two top methods to protect the truck from falling rocks on the sides or dropping to far into the bin and damaging the dumping bed. When loading rock he wants to be able to put the load in from behind with the bucket almost touching the dumping bed when tilting open. By doing this the stone/rock will not have a long drop into the bin.

Thought I`ll just share with you. Seems there`s again no right or wrong method....

 

[390eric]

Every material is different. Some cuts I can take a bucket in a short stroke. You know heavy bulking Sometimes I need take a long shallow cut in hard material It's faster to take a little bit at a time with this. We have a lot of hard shale where you get into the layers and peel up a bucketful. In clay I just bulk out a full bucket in a short cut. Bucket angle depends on the material again. It's not always the same. And I have my benches set so the trucks pull beside me Never back in unless absolutely necessary. Try to have trucks pull up so I am swinging over the bed not cab.

Moving dirt isn't about speed, it's about efficency. Always a full bucket, always a full truck, always a smooth road, always having the fill organized so the truck can go and dump no stopping. Nothing stops it's a well oiled train. It's a lot harder than it seems to accomplish this Need an excellent operator in the loading hoe. Need a organized dozer operator on the fill. Always be efficent as possible then the speed comes.

 

[JimBruce42]

Put it in better words than I could, 390eric. The only time I even think about having trucks back into me is when loading out big boulders or something similar. Padding the bed with a bucket of fines first (if possible) helps too. Been on the receiving end of that before. That's all it takes to know when you're in the hot seat you want to make things easier and smoother for the drivers.

 

[CM1995]

I never want my trucks to back up - on the loading and dumping end. Like Jim said sometimes you have to back trucks up to the hoe but this should be kept to a minimum if you want production.

 

[bigshow]

Here's an excerpt from the Cat Performance Handbook. My trucks will pull alongside me, cab to cab, unless it's large material with on-road trucks, then I do as everyone else says. Fines on the floor, and set the object on the floor, starting with it against the tailgate. In an M.E. situation, the trucks are very tight to me as my cut is only as wide as my undercarriage. This allows me to maintain a swing angle of ~45* from centerline and keeping cycle times down.

 

[qball]

Just load the dang truck! Every job is different. Improvise, adapt and overcome!

 

[Garrie Denny]

How hard is it,do we need a have a science degree to move dirt< Please.

 

[caterpillarmech]

No, but there is a science to it. Get an operator on a hoe that does not move dirt effectively and you'll see a rapid drop in production. Production is what we are all chasing. I have been around equipment all my life and cannot tell you how many things I was doing wrong now that the process and theory have been explained to me.

 

[CM1995]

Assuming the discussion is about production moving, then yes there is a science to it guys.:cool2

Now if one is moving a couple 100 to a 1K yards on an urban/suburban site into on-road trucks then set up and the load the truck how the space and site permits.

I don't have a great deal of mass-dirt moving experience compared to the smaller sites in my career but over the year and 1/2 I was on a large site it was important to pay attention to how the haul road and the trucks moved, how the cut and excavator was set up and how the fill lift was managed.

Excavator set up on a bench, tracks level with bed, truck pulls in by the side of the exc. with cab towards the ass of the exc., load over rear at 45 degree angle. Truck hauls ass to dump site and pulls perpendicular in front the dozer on top of and at the edge of the fill lift. This accomplishes two things - one the truck doesn't have to back up and aids in compaction. The load is at the edge of the lift and the dozer can easily push it. IMO a proper set up fill lift is just as important as the loading end.

Also having a nice flowing haul road made a production difference. The distance the trucks traveled was probably 2000 ft round trip. Each truck would average 100 + loads a day - 725's. Got the loading cycle with a 325DL down to an average of 90 seconds per truck. When we were in shot rock the production would go down.

If you study your operation, you can see the productive patterns and adjust for more efficiency.