Could a novice get a little operating advice on a D7?

[fastline]

Kinda embarrassed to ask but I feel like a lost puppy trying to do some cuts and fills with my D7E. I bought it to do this sort of thing but I just don't have the experience doing big cuts and keeping things dialed in. My experiences are mostly final grade running a smaller 6 way machine.

I cannot see squat on this machine and going by "feel" does not see to help me much. I don't even have tilt on this machine so I realize I need to get good to be able to dial much in with it.

The blade is a straight blade type with a near new cut edge. When I drop the blade, the sweep on the cut edge gets busy and the front of the machine sinks faster than I can adjust for, then I am either taking too deep of a cut, or I puss out and take a light cut and waste time. Then I try to go back over my shoddy work to fix it, and waste more time. When I start a a cut, I drop the blade on the ground, take off, then lower it a bit more, and all seems ok until the blade gets a little load which causes it to dig deeper pulling the nose down, and I comp by bumping the blade up. My cut shows it all.... ups/downs for days...

Can anyone pitch me some pointers on these bigger birds?

 

[ol'stonebreaker]

You have to develop what us old catskinners call a bubble in your a$$. Don't worry about "seeing" what the dozer is doing, learn to use the "bubble". For starters travel about 1/2 throttle in 1st gear, lower blade, don't drop it. With some practice you'll soon be able to feel the dozer picking up the load and making adjustments to compensate for it. As for tilt you have to learn to build up slightly the side opposite you want to cut in order to tilt the cat. This doesn't require much in inches or centimeters for fill to tilt the cat. If you tilt too much it'll take too much cut and start trying to pull the cat to that side. It's another thing that takes practice. As you get more comfortable at 1/2 throttle rev 'er up a little more and after a while you'll be in 2nd gear full throttle movin' muck like a pro. The first cat I ran was a D-8 14A with a cable dozer and it took me some time to develop the "bubble" and the tilting technique.
Just remember since you own it you're not on anybody's clock so take your time to learn the right way.
Mike

 

[LDK]

Kinda embarrassed to ask but I feel like a lost puppy trying to do some cuts and fills with my D7E. I bought it to do this sort of thing but I just don't have the experience doing big cuts and keeping things dialed in. My experiences are mostly final grade running a smaller 6 way machine.

I cannot see squat on this machine and going by "feel" does not see to help me much. I don't even have tilt on this machine so I realize I need to get good to be able to dial much in with it.

The blade is a straight blade type with a near new cut edge. When I drop the blade, the sweep on the cut edge gets busy and the front of the machine sinks faster than I can adjust for, then I am either taking too deep of a cut, or I puss out and take a light cut and waste time. Then I try to go back over my shoddy work to fix it, and waste more time. When I start a a cut, I drop the blade on the ground, take off, then lower it a bit more, and all seems ok until the blade gets a little load which causes it to dig deeper pulling the nose down, and I comp by bumping the blade up. My cut shows it all.... ups/downs for days...

Can anyone pitch me some pointers on these bigger birds?

Fastline,
I think that if you have been doing final trim on a small dozer, you must already have the "bubble", unless of course it was a GPS or lazer actuated machine.
It could just be that your front idlers are in the high position or you may have lazy lift rams and thats not fun

If you are bulking, fill the blade as quick and in as short a distance as possible, starting at the front of your cut, creating a slot as you move back. Remember, you are not doing final trim!
If you need to tilt your dig, just reverse onto your winrow as come back to raise the track on one side to tilt the other.
If the material is not solid, as you are pushing a loaded blade you can spin one track using the slewing clutch of the side you want to tilt, that will tilt you a little. I am probably going to catch flack for telling you that one by the more responsible on here ie; mechanics and owner operators sighting excessive wear but I used to it as more of a correction in years past.
I hope that helps you out at least a little.
Russ
PS. If the material is loose...ish lay the top of your blade back, it will carry more and is normaly easier to grade with too in good going.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .
Good one LDK. about loading blade in short distance. I cop flack here and on other sites about my insistence of pushing slots while bulking.

I doubt if five in one hundred hands running dozer can work to the machines potential . . . and oh yeh spin that track a little to dig the side down but don't let it sling shot when you let the clutch engage.

I reckon the hydraulic tilt was the biggest advance in the evolution of the bulldozer and of more significance than power-shift.

Cheers.

 

[farmerlund]

if you get a lot of washboards, move over a half blade width. or go at a slight angle to them. A few degrees difference will help. It will come to you in time.
If it really hard ripping first makes a huge difference,(can't believe Scrub missed a chance to get that in) LOL.

 

[DMiller]

I am still learning the 'Bubble' as I used the MP on the old Allis as a dozer at times, takes a feel as well a consideration as to machine movement and knowing where the leading track shoes on the bottom are to catch the cut and flow in. I was getting fair with my machine now have installed a GP so all bets are off again!!

 

[LDK]

Fastline,
A full blade is easier than an empty one to grade with.

Farmerlund,
I agree as far as ripping goes, I kind of take it for granted. I always rip when needed, I hate dicking around trying to fill the blade.

Scrub,
It was nice getting a power shift after those direct drives though, no?
I ran no end of direct drive and winch blade D8's, did the job but I would not want one now but I kind of liked them for pulling a scraper.
Russ

 

[fastline]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will try to explain more but it sounds like I am doing what I should be doing, just not getting the 'feel' just yet. I am VERY curious about blade adjustments? Or is it pretty normal for the machine to nose dive and grab a full load in 1-2sec? The soil is all going to be clays with a little sand. If I want to full mouth full, all I need to do is lower the blade and it will go to China.

I think some of my previous experiences are biting me because I want to take 2-3" per pass but it sounds like I am supposed to gouge it hard and then push that?

In any case, I have been using the small windrows to adjust any tilt that I need. It wastes time because if the row is too big, I need to take a centered pass to lower it, then go back and ride one track over it to angle my cuts.

I have also been changing my angle or line if things get too rippled and was not sure if this ripple than I am making is typical or if I just don't have the feel yet?

 

[ol'stonebreaker]

Cutting clay with a straight dozer is difficult to keep the runs smooth. If the manual tilt adjustments work, tilt the dozer as straight up, or back if you please, as it will go and work from there. If it won't cut good then start tilting it forward in small and equal increments. With this clay I have to disagree with loading it up in as short a distance as possible until you get the "feel". When you get the "feel" pushing a partial load then a full load will be easy.
Mike

 

[Scrub Puller]

xxxx

 

[Scrub Puller]

I think some of my previous experiences are biting me because I want to take 2-3" per pass but it sounds like I am supposed to gouge it hard and then push that?

You got it in one mate, you should be taking out a couple of feet! (grins)

When bulk pushing the material should be taken out in "floors" . . . a floor normally is the depth of your rip.

If you can bury the blade with out ripping then you will have to use your discretion and good luck to you.

Either way you start at the front of the cut, drive the blade in full depth (that will be a couple of feet in the case of a seven) bulge the dirt out of the hole and leave it, back up and take another bite down to full depth and push the material to the fill.

As you work back across the cut you create a slot and some times in good going you can take two or three 'won' blade fulls to the fill in a train.

Contrary to popular opinion the material does not need to 'boil'. Once you get the knack in some material the dirt will just lay there quietly. The idea is to "win" it on the downhill push into your two foot deep slot and then "drift" it to the fill . . . some times on a long push you can even grab a bit of second.

The idea is to keep the bottom of the slot as clean as possible so the tracks are working on the unripped material below the slot. With clutch and brake machine (while pushing) most of the steering is done with the with the blade tilt if the rig is so equipped.

As I said up thread a dozer used to be the most common earthmoving machine but even after all these years is the least understood . . . most anyone can push dirt around and burn fuel but a "good" dozer hand will out produce the "average" often by two to one . . . the cheap dirt is that stuff in the rills between the slots and the technique as how to handle that is a separate thing again.

https://www.constructionequipment.com/doze-more-dirt

This article more or less says the same thing . . . I like to load in less than two tractor lengths

Cheers.


i

 

[Scrub Puller]

xxxx

 

[stars&bars44]

We a D7F that had a little wear in the blade lever. Made it tough on clay. Slow down to speed up. If your wanting to learn don't focus on being super productive. Slow down and ease into everything, speed will come soon enough. Those older dozers hydraulics and controls have more lag than the newer ones.

 

[fastline]

Yes, I think some lag in the hydraulics could be some of this, and may just take some practice. I really do NOT like this huge handle at head height for the blade control! Who came up with that???

What I was doing was creep into a cut in 1st, then as I picked up a load, I would switch to 2nd to move it along. I was using 2nd for all my reversing but I did grab 3rd once and the tracks seemed to REALLY not like that! They got LOUD. It does not run much so probably a little sticky so I just ran 2nd. At near high idle, it was fast enough for me.

To paint the picture, I am trying to rework some drainage where a building is going. A field terrace was going to feed water right to the building so I needed to knock an area of the terrace out and move it forward about 100ft and level it some. It was just rough work to divert the water for now. All if this was on a slight grade so going for "level" was not really the target, but to just make it "flat".

When I started on the terrace, I got in about 4-6", then the blade just wants to DIVE, then I have like no time to adjust for it to keep the cut smooth. So I rip on the blade control to get the blade up and usually ended up raising it too high and end up with a sharp bump there. Then I would back up and try to fix that. Wasted a LOT of time with that. Just seemed like the machine wanted to EAT. The way I figure it, the ground was virgin, moist clay, and I probably had a little down force on the blade, then the blade bites in and the tracks level out.

I figure I might try again but slow way down when I feel it bite in so I have some time to correct but I realize then the hydraulics slow down too!

I will try to explain further on my experiences and what I am doing. I know I am in over my head but I don't have much choice.
My experience is in gold course construction and large municipal storm sewer and bridge work. On the golf course, we had dozer specialists that did most of the shaping, and my work was in irrigation and final turf so we would be moving slow with a 6 way dozer to dial things in, then smooth up with 3pt equipment to roll sod and such.

On storm sewer work, we did massive installations in which trenches were excavated and backfilled so I would doze spoil. At no point have I been experienced in cutting virgin ground and "seeing it" in my head.

Now on my current work, this is my own place, and I will be building up a BUNCH of aesthetic berms soon, but above all, I have to keep proper drainage in mind. In the area I am working, I do NOT have much grade to work with! Like 1ft of grade in a 300x500ft area! I realize that is enough, but I have to be dead on! Because I have tons of experience on a 3pt box blade, my habit is to use that for some dirt moving but it is mostly hilarious to compare what that box blade will do compared to the D7. There is no doubt my time is better spent getting good on the D7 and leave that box blade for only final work.

So, when I need some'extra dirt, I mostly want to 'scrape' a larger area and build a pile, but that D7 don't like it. it wants to eat.

Due to the size and lack of adjustability on the D7 blade, it might mean I can hog with the D7, and I will just have to get a smaller 6 way machine out for some final shaping. I do have one of our golf coarse shaping experts on speed dial but he is 40 miles from me and I hate to bug him until it is really time for him. He could probably sweep in and do it all with my D7 but I bet his little 6 way Deere will be a better match for shaping.

 

[fastline]

xxxx

 

[LDK]

When stationary if you put down pressure on the blade will it lift the front end of the tractor, if it does, will it stay raised or does it creep back down?
Do the idlers look like they are in the high position?
If you have a decent tractor on your box blade you can make a rough job look slick pretty quick, nice having that!

 

[fastline]

Hmm, I know when I have it raised, it will stay there for some time or at least over night it will finally be on the ground. I have not tested when when pushing down but I know it does not just bleed right down. maybe over 20min or so.

As far as "high position", I an not sure what you are saying. The idlers only have one position, yes?

 

[fastline]

As far as a 3pt box, yep, the dozer guys laugh until they see one of our bigger 70hp New Hollands with full hydro tilt. We can get the dirt boiling out of the box but you do need a real tractor to make them work right.

When I cleared the rough spot for the building, I nose the box forward to run the ripper teeth, then kick it back to smooth up. Did the area on 1hr or so to within 2" of level by eye. However, I only had a 45hp tractor on it and I know I could have done this in 15min with a 6 way dozer...lol

 

[LDK]

Fastline,
If the idlers are set high, their will be less track on the ground so the tractor will be less well balanced for dozing. The high position is better suited to pulling.
Here is a link that might show it better...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...sition of front idlers on caterpillar&f=false