Could use a little help, Nige or others

[Old Magnet]

Fellow in Australia with a 98J Special Applications D5 with built in hydraulic controls.
Has a 8J0448 piston motor pump part of Hyd. Control Arrangement 3P8586.
Looking for flow and pressure specs on the pump.
Seems to be a common pump but I can't find the specs. Thanks

 

[Nige]

In the breakdown of the 3P-8586 Hyd Control it was replaced by a 1U-4760 Gear Pump in October 1980 which was in turn replaced by 6E-1221 in 1990. 6E-1221 retails at $900.

I have found a spec for testing 8J-0448 as a motor, not a pump. Even if it's being used as a pump in your application then testing it as a motor should show whether it's up to par or not. This will be a bench test, has he got the pump off the machine..? PM me with your email address for the details.

 

[Old Magnet]

Hmmm, 1980 would be well passed date of the 98J series. The guy asking is in the bush and doesn't even have a pressure gauge. How about the pressure rating and flow on the replacement gear pump which I'm assuming would be a match for pressure and maximum flow.

 

[Nige]

Tried all the alternative replacement numbers but nothing unfortunately. Sorry.

 

[Old Magnet]

Thanks for trying.

 

[Bob/Ont]

If it's a piston pump or motor, check the case drain line flow under load. It's the leakage going through it.
Late Bob

 

[Old Magnet]

Hi Bob, condition of the pump is kind of secondary here although it does need checking.
The primary request is to determine flow capacity and pressure so as to match up the implements he has and wants to use.

 

[lantraxco]

Time for a flow meter and pressure gauge?

 

[Old Magnet]

Time for a flow meter and pressure gauge?

Yes, that would do it but this is another one of those "Australian outback" operators whose tool kit is probably a crescent wrench with a hammer head welded on the other end and hundreds of miles to civilization. Got to quit responding to these guys. LOL
Surely there are some paper specs somewhere.

 

[lantraxco]

Five gallon bucket and a wristwatch? LOL

 

[tctractors]

O.M. I laughed a good bit at your comment on the "Australian Outback Combo" Leatherman copy, we have Scrub Puller here that can manage to make near anything do anything, the scary thing is he has the photo's to explain how he managed it, some of his comments just make me giggle all day, sadly some of these Down Under Lads are really up against Mother Nature with the lack of Rainfall, it is something I have No idea about and no experience of, the rain in the U.K. is starting to fire down out of the sky in some order making the thought of a dry spell a wanted moment, if only Rain Clouds had Tow Hooks we would send some Down Under, on the hydraulic setup on the D5 well this is something I have never seen or have any Data on, but I do have a Flow Meter with a pressure control.
tctractors

 

[Old Magnet]

Hi tc,
Yes, I'm sure it is no fun being up against the elements there in Australia, something we're starting to learn about here in California.

Noticed a footnote under the 3P8586 Hydraulic Control Arrangement referencing Form #GMG02185. Might be some info there. Anybody have access to that form?

 

[Nige]

Noticed a footnote under the 3P8586 Hydraulic Control Arrangement referencing Form #GMG02185. Might be some info there. Anybody have access to that form?

Another dead end I'm afraid. "Media Number not found". I tried it with both a zero and a letter O but got the same result. It may be available in paper form somewhere.

 

[Cmark]

I found a spec for 8J0448 in SENR7450, but the pump in 3P8586 appears to be 8J6332. What am I missing here Nige?

 

[Old Magnet]

It is a bit confusing, seems there are two numbers for the pump and fits several group numbers.

 

[Cmark]

Ah yes, now I see. 8j6332 is the group and there is a type 1 and type 2 with different numbers. Beginners mistake. Doh!

 

[Cmark]

Anyway, here's the test specs for 8J0448;

Rotation is clockwise when seen from drive end.
Type of pump: gear.
For test, use SAE 10W oil at 150° F (65° C).
Test at full speed:
Output ... 24 U.S. gpm(91 litre/min)


at a pressure of ... 100 psi(690 kPa)

with pump at ... 2000 rpm

with engine at ... 2000 rpm
Output ... 23 U.S. gpm(87 litre/min)


at a pressure of ... 1000 psi(6900 kPa)

with pump at ... 2000 rpm

with engine at ... 2000 rpm
Test at half speed:
Output ... 12 U.S. gpm(45 litre/min)


at a pressure of ... 100 psi(690 kPa)

with pump at ... 1000 rpm

with engine at ... 1000 rpm
Output ... 11 U.S. gpm(42 litre/min)

at a pressure of ... 1000 psi(6900 kPa)

with pump at ... 1000 rpm

with engine at ... 1000 rpm

(1) Torque for bolts ... 50 ± 5 lb. ft.(70 ± 7 N·m)

 

[Nige]

Chris, 8J-6332 is the Group, 8J-0448 is the pump.

However I think we need to clarify something here via OM and his friend in Oz..........

In the OP we have this .........

Has a 8J0448 piston motor pump part of Hyd. Control Arrangement 3P8586.

Now What CMark has found in SENR7450 is a specification for an 8J-0448 pump, but it's a gear pump not a piston pump.

Early versions (up to CHG 06) of the 3P-8586 Hyd. Control Arrangement listed in TMI contain a 9J-0448 Piston pump.
3P-8586 Hyd. Control Arrangement Type 1 listed in SIS contains an 8J-6332 Pump Gp which in turn contains an 8J-6331 Pump. 8J-6331 is clearly indicated as a gear pump.
3P-8586 Hyd. Control Arrangement Type 2 listed in SIS contains an 8J-6332 Pump Gp which in turn contains a 9J-0448 Pump. I'm surmising that the D5 owner in Oz has this arrangement.

The issue is that both 8J-0448 and 9J-0448 are genuine numbers - 8J-0448 being a gear pump and 9J-0448 being a piston pump that can also double as a piston motor.

OM, can the guy from Oz confirm what type of pump he has on his tractor. Best way would be to take a photo of the pump and post it here. It may be that SIS & TMI contains a misprint and in fact the pump we are dealing with is a gear pump.

 

[Nige]

Ah yes, now I see. 8j6332 is the group and there is a type 1 and type 2 with different numbers. Beginners mistake. Doh!

But both Type 1 & Type 2 are clearly titled as "Gear Pump Gp" at the head of the Parts List ........ WTF..?

 

[Old Magnet]

Seems odd. Looking at the silhouette shape of the pump in the parts book and a little "google" I came up with this??? Parts book does not give a breakdown of internal parts??? Doesn't fit the usual shape of a gear pump but who knows?
http://avspare.com/catalog/cat/ueg0852s/ueg0852s0156/

Flow seems reasonable for ag application but I was expecting higher pressure.
1000 psi does match early implement pressure systems.