D8R new tracks

[nicky 68a]

Then you have to consider the dreaded DCF/DCR Korean undercarriage for bigger tractors.
Well,what can I say?Ive had one on a D5H and one on a D8H.They’re soft for sure and they’re cheap.I never bothered buying DCF/DCR since.
Then Covid struck……..I ended up hiring in 3 more Cat D9T’s aswell as my own kit.All the D9’s were on runout track wise at the time,although mine had a set of pretty decent Cat tracks fitted that went on to last until April this year.At the time,Finnings we’re not intrested in bothering to quote or supply complete D9 undercarriages for 3 tractors.You just couldn’t get them to reply to phone calls,e.mails,nothing.
So,what do you do with 3 D9’s needing tracks with a few hundred thousand cube of muck to shift?
You buy them off the only company that has them at whatever price they demand!
Cat D9 trackgroups $30k and more plus 3 months wait.DCR trackgroups $15k and delivered the next day.
All those 3 D9’s were sold after that job after particular job probably clocking up 6/700 hours each.I don’t recall exactly,but all the DCR trackgroups looked to be in very good shape.This was in general muck overburden though and not hard rock.
So the time came this April to replace my PPR Cat trackgroups on the D9T.Again,Finnings were hard to get a quote from,ITR were on a few weeks back order,but the DCR tracks were sitting in stock as usual.
They were $15k and delivered the following morning.They aren’t PPR but the tractor isn’t ripping in hard rock.
I’ll probably never get to see how the DCR D9 undercarriage pans out as work is drying up here now,so the big Cat is snoozing.

 

[Nige]

So,in complete contradiction of my previous post on PPR,I’ll say that I have an entirely different opinion on what tracks get fitted onto my D9T.
It’s about 55T and 50% bigger than my D8T I think?
So,because it’s so big,it’s understandably expected to tackle the harder quarries such as limestone or granite etc.
In these applications,I’d recommend PPR track chains for sure.The same can be said if you’re using a D9 to push scrapers or push out loads off 777’s on coalsites etc.Lots of weight,sharp spragging equates to walking pins.

Good point Nicky. I would agree with PPR on a 9 and above and probably debatable on an 8.

 

[big ben]

Just for fun I’ll throw out my recent example.

D9T was 100% Cat UC for 45,000 hrs with no major issues. Customer decided it was time to shop and we did a test.

Wood chip application. Low impact. Low abrasion. Mod/High moisture. Mod/high packing. Steep slope work and high speeds (an issue for another topic). Overall dream work for UC.

One new Cat HD track with new Cat 30” shoes and hardware. One new ITR track with Cat 30” shoes and ITR hardware.

After 6792 hrs on the tracks notable problems. PSR shows 39% idle so call it 4075 working hours on the tracks.

Cat link 5% wear, 3% internal wear (stretch) and bushing had 8%.

ITR link 5% wear, 101% internal wear (stretch) and bushing had 16%.

3 Cat idlers at 44% wear with over 12,000 hrs. 1 ITR idler at 6% wear (hrs unknown but newest) but tread had hard surfacing all peeling off and cracking.

Customer ask the ITR selling dealer for support. They came in to check the UC (with eyes cause they have no measuring tools) and said they did not see any issues and no reason any support was needed.

Customer just bought a new Cat track to replace the ITR (18 months old) and 2 idlers (1 spare)….

Application, utilization, length of ownership, up front costs, warranty, UC management options, just a few factors that need to be considered before deciding on the right choice !

Good luck out there !

 

[nicky 68a]

Fair play Ben.
There is allways another angle.
I’m a Cat lover through and through,but I’ve never had my value for money out of their undercarriages and GET products unfortunately

 

[big ben]

Hey Nicky, I get that one shoe does not fit all ! I’ve put non-Cat UC on Cats and lots of Cat UC on non-Cats !

As well Cat general duty D8 UC is about 50% the cost of HD. It is non-PPR but great value overall.

D9-D11 Cat general duty UC is PPR.

 

[Robert0769]

Why look at used if your uptime is a priority with lots of work ahead of you? Lots of time and labor with the undercarriage; pivot shaft bushing's; transmission plus what ever else you find to fix. I get the sense you are pushing you and your machine too hard. I mentioned it in the earlier post and I say it again. Slow down and consider the sound advice you have been given.

If machine goes full speed without bog down it's not overloaded I'd think? And why go used vs new? Well I have other large equipment which I can use to install everything myself and with my friend while partaking in our favored reality augmentation. I can have the tracks and everything replaced in 1-2 days. Then also there's a cost difference.. used costs 25% of the new price. That's lit rally the entire cost of trans rebuild. So I can get tracks that will last 8-12 jobs and also rebuild the trans or I can just get new tracks for the same price.

 

[Robert0769]

What's the story on the used? If it's been sitting, there's a good chance the the links will be leaking soon BTDT.

What is the price point on the used? No more than half of new, less if worn more than 50%.

Cost of new vs used is 25%. I can take the other 75% and rebuild entire trans and have decent tracks and rebuilt trans for same price as new tracks. They said none of the links are leaking, but I can tell you for a fact 80% of my bushing have no lube at all and still lasted over a year so I should get at least 1-2 years with used tracks and if business keeps going as it is I can easily get new tracks down the road a year or two from now. So I'm not expecting the links to be sealed forever but they do say they're all sealed right now and they were planning on using them for rentals. I'm probably going to head up today and take a look at them but they're bushings look amazing compared to mine haha!

 

[Robert0769]

Why look at used if your uptime is a priority with lots of work ahead of you? Lots of time and labor with the undercarriage; pivot shaft bushing's; transmission plus what ever else you find to fix. I get the sense you are pushing you and your machine too hard. I mentioned it in the earlier post and I say it again. Slow down and consider the sound advice you have been given.

Also any new tracks have a month to delivery and I'm not sure I'll last a month. That one pin is really bad.i have too many jobs to stop a month. I have 3 right now and more permits coming.

 

[Robert0769]

Secondly,I’m not going to comment on the state of your existing D8R undercarriage.It is what it is.
Assuming all is well in your trackframes and eq bar and pivot shafts etc,your question as to wether it’s worth the extra thousands of dollars to buy Cat PPR on a D8R dozing or ripping in you material is a big,fat NO!!
Whilst I agree with everything Nige has ever stated on here over the years,I’m going to put my neck on the line over the PPR thing.
I’ve lost count of the amount of undercarriages I’ve bought and ran on D8’s.I keep a close eye on things and know that Cat are very good.But,not that good.They are very overpriced and offer me a much higher hourly running cost than ITR or ITM.
I’m not going to bore you with the many variables in undercarriage wear and operators inexperienced methods,but I’ve had many of the same men on the same machines in the same quarries for years,so have a fair idea.
PPR offers you the luxury of not having pins walking out.I’ve never had one pin ever walk out of a D8 in 30+ years in either general muckshifting,sand and gravel quarries and sandstone quarries.In that time I’ve only ever owned one set of PPR only.In your operation,you’re paying all that money to throw it away once your bushings are toast.
Buy some cheap ITR 22” std grouser track groups,some cheap ITR segments and throw the lot into the bin once the bush is worn through and you’re running on pins.However,be sure to replace the segments (do not use Cat) when they are only 50/60% worn.I expect my D8’s to get through 3 or 4 sets of segments during the life of the chains.ITR segments are under $600 a complete set here in the UK and are easily swapped out in 3 hours.
It will extend your profit margins considerably.When the groups are completely knackered,the links should be around 70% worn.I’m happy to throw the remaining 50% rail away.
This method works well even with well worn rollers and idlers,but careful monitoring of cannon length and bogey abuse is advised.Don’t try a squeeze too much out of them

Thank you for this I appreciate it. For segments, do you mean sprockets?

 

[Robert0769]

So,in complete contradiction of my previous post on PPR,I’ll say that I have an entirely different opinion on what tracks get fitted onto my D9T.
It’s about 55T and 50% bigger than my D8T I think?
So,because it’s so big,it’s understandably expected to tackle the harder quarries such as limestone or granite etc.
In these applications,I’d recommend PPR track chains for sure.The same can be said if you’re using a D9 to push scrapers or push out loads off 777’s on coalsites etc.Lots of weight,sharp spragging equates to walking pins.

I definitely agree here. I believe the PPR is standard on d9 and up.

 

[Robert0769]

Then you have to consider the dreaded DCF/DCR Korean undercarriage for bigger tractors.
Well,what can I say?Ive had one on a D5H and one on a D8H.They’re soft for sure and they’re cheap.I never bothered buying DCF/DCR since.
Then Covid struck……..I ended up hiring in 3 more Cat D9T’s aswell as my own kit.All the D9’s were on runout track wise at the time,although mine had a set of pretty decent Cat tracks fitted that went on to last until April this year.At the time,Finnings we’re not intrested in bothering to quote or supply complete D9 undercarriages for 3 tractors.You just couldn’t get them to reply to phone calls,e.mails,nothing.
So,what do you do with 3 D9’s needing tracks with a few hundred thousand cube of muck to shift?
You buy them off the only company that has them at whatever price they demand!
Cat D9 trackgroups $30k and more plus 3 months wait.DCR trackgroups $15k and delivered the next day.
All those 3 D9’s were sold after that job after particular job probably clocking up 6/700 hours each.I don’t recall exactly,but all the DCR trackgroups looked to be in very good shape.This was in general muck overburden though and not hard rock.
So the time came this April to replace my PPR Cat trackgroups on the D9T.Again,Finnings were hard to get a quote from,ITR were on a few weeks back order,but the DCR tracks were sitting in stock as usual.
They were $15k and delivered the following morning.They aren’t PPR but the tractor isn’t ripping in hard rock.
I’ll probably never get to see how the DCR D9 undercarriage pans out as work is drying up here now,so the big Cat is snoozing.

Agree completely. I have my cat credit card waiving in the air saying please charge me 40k and they literally won't. Last rep told me they have a set on the east coast and freight is 15k or I can get shipped here for free regular cat shopping but it will take a month if I'm lucky. Those are the words the cat dealer told me. "I'll have to pray cat sends them quickly but it could take over a month to get them" then they said they'll put me in touch with another sales rep since the first one is on vacation... They made a group email saying contact me I want to buy.. I responded saying I'm ready to buy immediately please contact me... That was over a week ago. So unfortunately f**k cat and here I come used.

 

[Robert0769]

Just for fun I’ll throw out my recent example.

D9T was 100% Cat UC for 45,000 hrs with no major issues. Customer decided it was time to shop and we did a test.

Wood chip application. Low impact. Low abrasion. Mod/High moisture. Mod/high packing. Steep slope work and high speeds (an issue for another topic). Overall dream work for UC.

One new Cat HD track with new Cat 30” shoes and hardware. One new ITR track with Cat 30” shoes and ITR hardware.

After 6792 hrs on the tracks notable problems. PSR shows 39% idle so call it 4075 working hours on the tracks.

Cat link 5% wear, 3% internal wear (stretch) and bushing had 8%.

ITR link 5% wear, 101% internal wear (stretch) and bushing had 16%.

3 Cat idlers at 44% wear with over 12,000 hrs. 1 ITR idler at 6% wear (hrs unknown but newest) but tread had hard surfacing all peeling off and cracking.

Customer ask the ITR selling dealer for support. They came in to check the UC (with eyes cause they have no measuring tools) and said they did not see any issues and no reason any support was needed.

Customer just bought a new Cat track to replace the ITR (18 months old) and 2 idlers (1 spare)….

Application, utilization, length of ownership, up front costs, warranty, UC management options, just a few factors that need to be considered before deciding on the right choice !

Good luck out there !

Holy crap 101% internal wear? Yikes! I'd like cat but they are too busy to answer an email to sell me any.

 

[Robert0769]

Agree completely. I have my cat credit card waiving in the air saying please charge me 40k and they literally won't. Last rep told me they have a set on the east coast and freight is 15k or I can get shipped here for free regular cat shopping but it will take a month if I'm lucky. Those are the words the cat dealer told me. "I'll have to pray cat sends them quickly but it could take over a month to get them" then they said they'll put me in touch with another sales rep since the first one is on vacation... They made a group email saying contact me I want to buy.. I responded saying I'm ready to buy immediately please contact me... That was over a week ago. So unfortunately f**k cat and here I come used.

I emailed the group email and let them know I've been trying to buy tracks for 5 months and now am going private party because they aren't interested in making any sales and thanked them.

 

[nicky 68a]

Thank you for this I appreciate it. For segments, do you mean sprockets?

Yes,segments and sprockets are one in the same to me

 

[Nige]

For segments, do you mean sprockets?

If it's in one piece it's a sprocket. Yours is in 5 pieces IIRC so they are segments.

 

[bccat]

Speed & Spinning the track kills undercarriage period ! Seen it too many times. Just watch Andrew Caramatta on YouTube. On a high track machine the ride is smoother & have more hp so you can go faster ,Looked after a Brand new D9t after 1200 hrs it needed a pin & bushing turn, roller’s replaced, was adjusting tracks once a week, Green operator’s and a ignorant Boss didn’t help.Just wanted the material over the side

 

[nicky 68a]

If it's in one piece it's a sprocket. Yours is in 5 pieces IIRC so they are segments.

I didn’t know that.
Every day a learning day

 

[nicky 68a]

As Bccat says,it’s all in the operator.
Good operators can get twice as much out of an undercarriage as a novice or a highly experienced imbecile.
Fortunately for my little operation,I’m quoting against big companies that accept and understand that you can’t get good men to operate them,so the higher running costs are allready built into their rates.
Rates are allways tight enough,so if I undercut by a tiny margin,or offer a much more flexible service to the contractor,then I can make a bit of profit from time to time.

 

[Robert0769]

As Bccat says,it’s all in the operator.
Good operators can get twice as much out of an undercarriage as a novice or a highly experienced imbecile.
Fortunately for my little operation,I’m quoting against big companies that accept and understand that you can’t get good men to operate them,so the higher running costs are allready built into their rates.
Rates are allways tight enough,so if I undercut by a tiny margin,or offer a much more flexible service to the contractor,then I can make a bit of profit from time to time.

I got about 160k cuyd and 3 years out of UC supposedly 40-50% when I purchased according to auction I had do inspection.

 

[Robert0769]

If it's in one piece it's a sprocket. Yours is in 5 pieces IIRC so they are segments.